Threaded Comments Launched!

sweeeeet, about time

Hey guys, nice work. And the new look of the 'write comment' area was just so inviting I had to try it out... it's saying, "C'mon, you know you wanna."

slight bug: this comment's parent is by me, so it's parchment coloured in my browser, and says "You" in the top right. The first two children are by dylan and ellie, so they should be grey (shouldn't they?) but they're parchment and also say "You".

oops other people noticed this, sorry.

Ooh! look at me! im inside this thread!

Threads are one-level deep only. The ability to have subconversations within entries was very important to us, but we felt that with each successive level of nesting, the returns were diminished and the aesthetics were compromised.

Threads are one-level deep only. The ability to have subconversations within entries was very important to us, but we felt that with each successive level of nesting, the returns were diminished and the aesthetics were compromised.

It seems that there will not be unlimited responses to responses to responses, etc for the very reason you mentioned, aesthetically it would kill the site with either super thin comments or an extremely wide page.

Couldn't you just have comment threads with more than two or three subconversations be collapsed?

Negative (or badly rated) comments could be highlighted red or have an an 'x' beside them and need to be de-collapsed individually (instead of just de-collapsing with the entire thread).

If each long subthread could be collapsed/de-collapsed, it wouldn't be as cluttered.

Personally, I don't see the point in subconversations if you are only going to allow them to go one level deep. It will still get cluttered when there are many comments and replies (for example, if there are four or more sub-comments and the author of the original comment wishes to reply to the second subcomment, and then two more replies to the original comment are posted before the second subcomment poster can post his reply, it adds up quickly).

Is there a special icon for the comment author so when the comment author replies back, it will be easy to spot them within their own comment thread if it does get long?

That sounds like slashdot. The problem is that tangents go waaaay offtopic when there is unlimited threadin.

If things go way off topic, you should report them, that way their messages will be hidden and highlighted and if people make good points vote them up so they are starred. Off topicness isn't caused by having subthreads, just look at digg, until recently, they had only one level deep comments, and that never prevented people from going way off topic or giving responses of little value. Once Newsvine starts to get really big, people who make bad/offtopic comments are going to follow (they always do).

Bsides, if the entire sub-threads are collapsed, it shoudn't be a big deal for people who don't want to read the comments.

I don't think that's correct about reporting them mas. The author has the ability to delete any of the comments that they want. The ! is only to be used for abuse and inappropriate material, not if the topic is off on a tangent but the person seems to be acting in good faith.

I guess it's a matter of opinion. I like to read the entire thread at once, and I don't use my mouse when doing so, so clicking to expand a thread bugs me. When there was no threading I was stopped several times from replying to someone because the conversation had moved on and I didn't want to derail it. That was a good thing, but sometimes confining. One level of threading and hopefully author intervention to keep things on topic seems the best bet to me.

If someone goes 'waaaay' off topic (not slightly off topic, or discusses a topic stemming from the original comment/article) shouldn't they get the 'no value' vote (maybe I'm a bit confused at what all the report buttons are for)?

I suppose it doesn't really matter, the point is that people will still go off topic even without unlimited comment levels. I just think that if comment threads could collapse it would save room (it would be cool if all old or read comments were collapsed, while new or unread comments were open), and not be as cluttered for people who just want to stick with the main discussion without having long comment threads getting in their way.

This is the same problem that occurs when someone replies to an author's comment, it too then becomes an 'Author's' comment. I agree that the color coding is helpful, and lets me pick out other comments from the author's or mine, so if there is anything that would need improving, that I can think of at this point, it would be that.

They are already useing AJAX is some spots.

Do not overuse a technology or it will come back to bite you in the butt.

search engine for the comments?

No, just for articles...

We already have one. Look up top, and check out the drop-down menu.

Newsvine staff, I keep reading suggestions that people think you need to add a site search. Is there a way to make that functionality more clear? I was searchin' around for the Search myself when I first joined. Just a thought. Lots of people aren't familiar with the sytax of Newsvine.com/______, and they may think (like I did) the input box is just another way of navigating the site using tags.

[back to your regularly scheduled thread topic...]

We already have search. To search newsvine use the search box at the top of the site also if you go

http://newsvine.com/!search term here! well also search Newsvine

Oh yea, ok... my bad (again)... am getting it, slowly slowly :-?

It's a little impractical, just something to spark some ideas for you guys.

How about creating a link at the top of the page (View New Posts (Small pop-up possibly?)), and then have the first couple of sentences of the original comment quoted, and the poster?

Or maybe having a little java pop-up that has the dynamic (I believe that's what they are called) links (page#blah)?

I would say listing the newest comments before any other comments/posts, but that would be bad because you would have new comments in response to others, and the person would have no idea what the reply was about.

I don't know, I've never been good at coming up with practical ideas, but.. you know, every little bit could help you guys.

Interesting stuff. My curiosity gene is ringing again. The economy of Newsvine. I seem to remember something about being able to make money from writing a column here. Not that it is a big deal to me, I am here for the experience, but I have no idea whatsoever how is Newsvine is closing in on its goals, or how near or how far I am from getting a check in the mail.

If it is about getting votes, beware of the "curse of self reference", which makes articles that include comments about Newsvine automatically receive a lot of attention.

It means that I am sending you a check for $3 so that you can get lunch today (or at least when you receive it). Yes I know that a wire transfer is faster, but please take it for what it is - an act of generosity and love.

On a serious note (I still love you, at least that part was serious...no $3 for you), you guys came from ESPN, Disney, etc. which I would assume pays relatively well, and based on the skills you guys have shown through Newsvine (and your site, which I love btw) it was a well deserving wage. But it stands to reason that when one wants to move into a risky area such as a new website riding on the latest craze (Web 2.0), funded by venture capitalists, there is going to be some sort of pay cut.

Interesting stuff. My curiosity gene is ringing again. The economy of Newsvine. I seem to remember something about being able to make money from writing a column here.

@Claus Jacobsen - The ad and payment system is the next big thing on the list of things to do for the Newsvine team. I would expect it in a few weeks to a month, and I'm sure a lot of great content will come out just after people start making the cash-ola ;)

OK, who are you, and how do you come up with this background info? Are you uplinked or otherwise embedded, or did you just launch your own research project? What do you base your prognosis on? It's all very, very interesting.

I would not say no to getting a paycheck for contributions, if deemed worthy hereto. But I do wonder if the payment system will address my concerns that populism and "the lowest common denominator" factor will cause some level of decay or at least unfair distribution, when comes to the levels of professionalism, research, investment of time, etc. Or maybe not...

OK, who are you, and how do you come up with this background info? Are you uplinked or otherwise embedded, or did you just launch your own research project? What do you base your prognosis on? It's all very, very interesting.

Anything I mention about Newsvine stems from things I have seen the staff mention through their posts, comments, and also from the discussions I have with them through other mediums. To be honest, a lot of the information is widely avaliable, you just have to dig in a bit deeper then just following meta-articles.

I would not say no to getting a paycheck for contributions, if deemed worthy hereto.

It isn't so much as getting paid for contributions as getting paid for the advertisements Newsvine will be running. Without quality content (which Newsvine is getting right now free, which really says something about the community. Cheers to everyone), Newsvine wouldn't be able to run, from a financial point of view (unless they ran off donations, but remember that Newsvine is a job for the staff). To promote users to write content for Newsvine, they will be giving 90% of ad revenue generated from your column, and take 10% off the top, which I feel is more then fair.

OK, who are you, and how do you come up with this background info?

Those of us who were part of Newsvine from the very beginning, (before it became public) know most of the little details about the site because we often talked with the developers and asked questions - got answers, and/or chatted in Newsvine's built-in chat system.

If you look into the archive of the Newsvine blog, you'll most likely find some information that you might be curious about.

I am glad that newsvine is so successful, but i still kind of miss those old days, when is was a private site. There was lots of more 1 on 1 time with other users.

In Firefox I had the same problem, but it could not be fixed with the reload button alone. If you are using Firefox and reload doesn't seem to be working for you, I suggest you try shift-reload to solve the problem (it reloads the cache as well as the page). The command for Internet Explorer is the same, with it being shift-refresh.

@prompt—thanks, that fixed it :)

If shift-reload doesn't do it, use ctrl-reload (ctrl+F5). I'm not sure if the two combinations are different from eachother, but i've always used the control key..

I concur!

Psssst! Claus! Do you get the feeling they're ignoring us? You think it was maybe something I said?

I think it is a case of overload, evano - limits to how many tech improvements can be implemented in one season.

Actually, I do see a point that there are no XHTML bottons on the articles, because I find that some articles are already flooded with external links, which makes the page look bad and lowers readability. Not only here, but in many pages. Al Jazeera is horrible like that - they feel the need to explain who Bush or the American Department of Defense is in every article.

I wasn't saying anything expecting them to implement the comments! That would be some unrealistic expectation! An "out-of-scope assumption," as they say at my job, meaning "give us more money and we'll see what we can do." :) Nah, I was just feeling all hurt and all cuz I said such nice things about Calvin and Mike D and all the other Newsvine Staff and none of them came and visited our little conversation. It's so lonely down here near the bottom of the page with just me and you and the new Don from The Godfather: Part III.

(He says very sheepishly:) After typing the comment I had to go to the supermarket and I just realized what it sounded like. The first sentence was supposed to say

I wasn't saying anything expecting them to implement the comments already! That would be some unrealistic expectation! An "out-of-scope assumption," as they say at my job, meaning "give us more money and we'll see what we can do." :)

The rest of the stuff was smart-ass, but not that sentence. Apologies to all. (Sneaks off to his corner)

(Laughing hysterically over your Godfather joke, as soon as I figured out what the H you were talking about):

I see you got your response from "the eye in the sky".

And I didn't take the comment about "out of scope assumptions" as arrogance, but that is maybe because I am somewhat familiar with the supply and demand cycle in the IT business: "Make us a commercial website that integrates CMS, CRM and a fully automated economy software, minimizing administrative duties man hours (to zero or below), maximizing profits, making us millions of dollars a year. We will pay you 3000 dollars. We expect SEO." (Sounds familiar?)

I ken sekind that. I tiep gud in my komentz, but wen I seed links, peepul see that I ken nott spel.

(no seriously, I would like this feature)

Clear your cache and refresh, it's all fixed now.

Aah, much better

Overall I like the threaded comments, but I think some things that need improved on are:

1. When using the comment tracker, it should bring you to the comment with a little lead in. Seeing the new one is nice but often you have to scroll up to see what it's pertaining to. I am not sure how to make it better, maybe:
a. Have the jump to new comment centered vice right at the top of the page so you can see a
little before it.
b. Bring you to the comment parent that has the new reply.
c. Have a little popup when going to nested comments that shows the parent comment.
d. Have a scroll bar with all the sub comments inside.

I don't know...just throwing out some ideas out.

2. Using the star and new button is nice to jump, but when you jump from a non-threaded to threaded, it moves a little so you can not just keep on clicking without moving your mouse over to the new location. Just a small annoyance for those using notebook trackpads. Sugest having them always placed in the same spot reletive to the comment area rather than the name bar which changes width.

Sorry about the formatting, it looked good in the preview.

Just to add a thought to Michael's request: sometimes I don't remember to hit the track button on a conversation I'm following. When I come back to the page conventionally -- not by the conversation tracker -- it would be nice to have a "new" button available at the top of the page, like in the box with the number of comments.

Oh, and can we get rid of the confirmation dialog that pops up every time we hit the "Track" button? Please?

I'll second the killing of the confirmation dialog when tracking posts. This is not a life and death issue and if we accidentally track a conversation the end of the world will not come and it is easy to fix.

If anything a confirmation dialog should come when submitting a comment asking as to "count to ten..." Not saying that I want that, but the idea is funny and far more useful then making sure we really want to track a conversation.

I am not to sure how I feel about the new comment system, though I think the aesthetics need a bit tinkering... I know this new system makes me feel as though a top-level comment is more of a mini-post, and then you comment on them. That is just my current feeling, my mind works weird...

Yes I am using both the conversation tracker and the new button, but they're not as nice as just scrolling down to read the next unread comment. The problem is you have to manually keep track of what comment the person is replying to. Previously people were quoting any relevant text within their comment, now I have to scroll up, skim read something I read yesterday, scroll back down, and finally read the comment. Then click the new button again and repeat. The point is it's a lot more "work" to read comments with the current system, it's almost like I'm researching people's opinions instead of following a conversation.

The only possible solution I can think of is to adopt the UI of an email client, where you have a list of emails displayed in a threaded view, and click on one to read it. But that's not really ideal either.

1. When using the comment tracker, it should bring you to the comment with a little lead in.

Unless the newsvine team knows a technique I haven't heard of, that will be very, *very* difficult to achieve. HTML simply doesn't have that feature built in, and there isn't any easy ways to work around it (that I know of).

PHP and javascript do have something like that already, so it is quite easy.

When you load the page, it looks like Newsvine distributes anchors thoughtout the page, named #last_1, #last_2, etc.

It would be simple enough to have the back end put these anchors in the post above the new post, which would have the desired effect (at the expense of confusing users who did not expect this behavior, and a less semantically correct markup).

It's a less than ideal solution for a problem which is (on the scale of things) quite small, but I agree with the other posters - I always find myself clicking "New" and then scrolling up...

I think you lost me there...sounds like the way you describe is just giving you collapsible comments?

How about something a little more simple...go back to a flat comment model...every comment has a reply and those with replies have a "follow thread" button. This way people can easily reply to a specific comment. The follow thread button when clicked will jump to the next comment reply. This way you have the best of both worlds. People that want to follow a convo can by clicking follow thread, and those that like flat comments can just read in the order they came in.

Either of those ideas make sense to me, though I am starting to get used to the current system. It just feels "off" a bit. There are definitely good points to having parent comments with their own children, on the first visit it is far easier to get a hold of the conversation, since sub-conversations are now grouped together. The bad point is the difficulty of following conversations on revisits.