
The average age needed to style comments just went way down.
Photo by Jenn . (License: Creative Commons Attribution)
Beginning today, we are rolling out a completely rewritten comment system. Some users may notice the changes immediately, and others may notice the new stuff several days later. In other words, this is a rolling release, and since it may contain some bugs, we'd rather only a subsection of the Newsvine population be exposed to it at this time.
So, what's new??? A lot of stuff. Some visible and some under the covers:
At long last, you can now style your comments on Newsvine without typing out longhand XHTML tags. Using the new row of buttons on top of the comment box, you can do things like bold and italicize your text as well as adding links. If you aren't into clicking buttons, you can also use familiar shortcuts like Command-B (or Control-B on Windows) to accomplish the same. We give our thanks to the good folks developing the open-source TinyMCE editor for this bit of welcome awesomeness. Since WYSIWYG text editors on the web don't always produce perfect results, you can always switch to XHTML mode and enter tags in the old fashion way if you like. Swapping back and forth between modes is easy.
One of the nice things about the new comment editor is that you can stretch it to be as tall or short as you'd like and your preferred size will be remembered. So if you're a bit longwinded, you can have a big comment box on every page, and if you're more succinct, you can choose a smaller size. Sometimes, however, you're SO passionately engrossed in the penning of a genius comment that you really can't be bothered by any other text on the screen while you're spewing your wisdom. In cases like these, you can now hit the "Full Screen" button and your whole browser will become a canvas for your prose.
As the comment counts have grown at Newsvine, we have been working on a pagination solution which seeks to be an unobtrusive as possible while still allowing for reasonable page load times. We hate pagination over here and we hate sending people to different URLs to read an entire conversation. It's kind of like how you can't just watch an entire season of Dexter by picking up a DVD at your local video store. You have to go to the store multiple times, rent multiple discs, and watch the season piecemeal. It's good for the store and the movie studio as they make more money off of you, but it's bad for you. Pagination is no different, really. Sure we get a few more page views, but the tradeoff is that conversations can become fractured.
Paginating on Newsvine is particularly difficult because we have threaded comments, the super-useful "new" buttons, and the conversation tracker. While those elements make proper pagination extremely difficult, they are also what make Newsvine discussion threads -- from a technical standpoint -- more useful than most other sites' discussion threads.
With this release, we're rolling out "phase 2" of proper pagination on Newsvine (phase 1 was the temporary solution that's been in place for the last couple of months). There will be one more phase to the release, but this one fixes a lot of stuff and makes things generally much better.
Firstly, the conversation tracker now works across multiple pages. Secondly, the "new" buttons and stars now work properly across pages. In other words, if the next "new" comment on a thread happens to be on page 4 and you're on page 1, click on the "new" button will teleport you to page 4. Thirdly, we've turned the final "new" button red so you know you're at the last new comment. Click that final "new" button and you'll be taken to the top of the page. And finally, we now have numbered navigation at the bottoms of our comment threads so you can jump from page 1 to page 30 or directly to the last page with a single click. We're actually encouraged by the amount of bug reports we've gotten every single day for the last month or so about this. We love that people are interested in seeing not just the first comments but also the most recent ones (and theirs, of course).
Although our old spellchecker was apparently so good that OldFogey used it to spellcheck his Word documents, it was less than clean under the hood. Aside from using dated code, a new version of it had to be loaded for each domain. In other words, if you read articles from two Newsviners, you loaded the spellcheck twice. We've now switched to TinyMCE's built-in spellchecker so you only have to load the (much smaller) code once. The spellchecker's quite sharp looking as well. We like it even better than the last one.
The code which displays comments on Newsvine is fairly intricate and hasn't been rewritten in a long time. Over the last several months, there have been a lot of enhancements we've wanted to make to comment threads (such as the ones listed above) that we've held off on until the whole thing could be rewritten. It is now rewritten! With all of this heavy lifting out of the way, we look forward to adding things like avatars, country flags, and other elements to Newsvine comment threads that will further set them apart from the rest of the industry's. You may also find that story pages load a lot faster with the new comment service running.
Look for more improvements soon!
I haven't seen the editor yet, but it sounds great. How about extending it to writing articles?
I believe it was already mentioned early in the comments that they're planning on that, sir. :)
Jared called Viki "sir." **snickering**
fugitive called Dennis "Viki" **snickering**
fugitive called Dennis "Viki" **snickering**
Ha, ha! Touche! This is priceless. Must be the new playthings turning everyone's head! :o)
Dang... I could've sworn Viki's comment was above... Something about "pretending to understand"...
That's what I get for multi-tasking when my boys are getting into mischief!
Braad didn't realize Viki is Dennis' alter ego **snickering**
Alright, you're on to us. I am Dennis. Dennis is me. We've been fooling you all for more than two years.
I'm not going to give away the secret to how we both manage to appear on a VineCast at the same time.
If I'm not mistaken, last week, didn't you leave the vinecast just as he called in?
So why does Viki get a star and I don't?
:'-(
So why does Viki get a star and I don't?
Mom always did like her more....
So why does Viki get a star and I don't?
5 votes on your comment gets you a star. Viki's mom vote more than yours did. ;-)
So why does Viki get a star and I don't?
:'-(
See you got a star now too - Whose your Mama???
How did you know that I was Viki's Republican brother?
I have three Republican brothers that I know of. I can't think of a better addition to the stable than you, Andrew (or do I have to call you Andy now, and what the hell happened to the blue? Weren't we friends?)
Oh, my bad. I did a friend purge and deleted some people accidentally. :-P.
Yeah, I noticed ;-)
Waaahhhhh! Me too!
Did I forget anyone else???
You remembered me too. No great shakes...
Did I forget anyone else???
Yep.
I add five people as friends and only four voted for 26.15 or 26.18. Some friend.
only four voted
This being a political season, I have to ask if you offer payoffs for those votes. If so, I am willing to offer my vote for you!
*upon confirmation of a valid paypal number*
This being a political season, I have to ask if you offer payoffs for those votes. If so, I am willing to offer my vote for you!
*upon confirmation of a valid paypal number*
Hear, hear! Me too. One has to make a living how one can. :o)
I noticed this last night but didn't have time to play with it.
There are many reasons for that:
You can't tell, but I just toggled to the full screen mode. It was frightening, so I immediately toggled back to familiar territory.
I'm glad there's a button for strike-through.
That's all. I'm done playing. Give it to me for articles and I'll be in heaven.
The strike-through didn't work above. I struck through the word strike-through.
Let me try again.
And again.
Nope. The strike-through button doesn't work for me. I tried it by selecting the text and hitting the button, and also by hitting the button before typing the text.
I wonder if the del tag will work
Viki, I found the same thing. The del tag with XHTML works but not the button.
That's because the TinyMCE strikethrough is a span tag, with the style set to text-decoration strikethrough, however, if you notice in the XHTML mode, with the list of tags allowed, span is not one of them, so when TinyMCE puts in the strikethrough, when you post the comment, newsvine rips the strikethrough right back out.
I'll just pretend that I know what the hell you're talking about and get on with my life. ;)
I hardly every have use of it anyway.
Give it to me for articles and I'll be in heaven.
Hear, hear! Can't wait for all that excitement to come, for three reasons! :o)
(Mmmm...these lists are neat. Now, what other lists can I make?..*taps keyboard impatiently*)
Sounds great I can't wait
Hetep and Respect Good Spirits, I just made my first comment with the new bells and Whistles and it is great. I sort of followed my nose and every thing went as expected.
Spell ck seems much improved.
I always most of the time had trouble crossing things out. As U can see I am now an expert, tnx.
More resting testing as I go.
Hetep and Respect, Aunk. Great to see you happy because I am very happy too with mine. A few teething problems in evidence but they're obviously being sorted, so will wait until it all settles down before making some observations. :o)
H&R Ms C, help. I used the ABC cross out in my last sentence but now I don't see it in the final post. I crossed out the word Rest . Do you see rest crossed out?
I will try it again below:
More resting testing as I go.
No, nothing is crossed out, Aunk. :o(
I'll try it too and see what happens. (*she says, crossing out her words*)
Hope I have better luck.
:o( ..oh dear, can't see it, so it obviously didn't work, unless I need x-ray eyes!
Gotta try it too. Shnit! (my mom's favorite word outside of "Shozzbot!")
Definitely not working for me either
Well, KyanBelle has pronounced, so it cannot be working. :o)
Hetep & Respect KyanaBelle and Ms. C, Thanks for the conformation. As I get older, sometimes I think I did something, but then forgot that I did not do It. LoL
I am glad it is not me. and I didn't break any thing either (;-)
I am glad it is not me. and I didn't break any thing either (;-)
H & R to you, too, Aunk (I need to look up this Hetep - unless you care to spare me a web search!)
And I sooo know this feeling Aunk!
Testing
Testing
Shoot - tried something else and it still didn't work.
H&R KyanaBelle, Hetep Means Peace
Hetep means peace, not just saying peace, but also sending peace. It has been my experience that if you start a conversation with peace and respect it is more likely to be mutually beneficial.
For more info Click Here
What's with the unpublished comments? I'm noticing them on some of the threads. They're faded into the background, and don't have member names attached to them until you hit refresh.
It's interesting.
Just me, testing.
Ah great, I have trouble with what I'm doing now and you guys put up new stuff, but if old fogey can get it, I will have too also. The spell check is all that keeps me from seeming like a complete idiot anyway.
The spell check is all that keeps me from seeming like a complete idiot anyway.
That must be a very narrow path you walk... <grin>
You have no idea. It doesn't bother me when my friends call me crazy, but when I hear others calling them crazy, I get a bit concerned. Being a partial idiot I can deal with, it is the complete part I worry over.
Sounds great... guess I'll have to wait to play with it.
guess I'll have to wait to play with it.
That's what she said. :)
I left that one for you lauhal , I was tempted, but I sat on my hands.
You are such a gentleman. :)
Ha... hasty comment from me.
Holy cow, lookit all them new buttons. I don't even know how to use my old ones. Spell check looks like word processor. When do we get grammar and punctuation check?
When do we get grammar and punctuation check?
I believe it's called middle school.
(Yes, I'm just teasing.)
So what is the deal with the "Unpublished Comments"? Inquiring minds do want to know.... :)
I don't know! It's weird.
I noticed also that I'm able to see deleted comments as if they were on my own column/thread. What the point of that? A trollish comment, deleted yet able to be viewed, is still a trollish comment, and will still ensnare somebody.
I don't think an "unpublished" comment is the same as a deleted comment, is it? Though, I don't know what an unpublished comment is, so I could be wrong.
I just tested it and it is possible to reply to an unpublished comment. Are they being caused when people abandon their comments or is something else creating it? Maybe they're comments left by Greenhouse users? I noticed that they don't have user ID's associated with them.
what i'm curious about - besides unpublished - is why i can read comments marked as deleted
do I have a new superpower (to see things that are no longer there) and if so can i use that power for something non-text related like clothes?
My comment tools just kicked in. Is the preview pane gone or am I missing things still (I'm not seeing "unpublished comments" either)?
Preview is gone. Since it's WYSIWYG there's not much reason to preview, I suppose. Visit a few of the hot political threads and you'll see some unpublished comments.
Yeah, I just tried to use the link tool and it wouldn't work so I manually coded it, which I of course screwed up, and had to go back and edit it because I couldn't see the mistake before posting.
The link tool works, you just can't see your cursor in the top field. CTRL-V to paste the link there, choose the target, & you're good to go.
I hope expanded tools like this will extend to writing articles sometime in the future.
So say we all.
I hope that whatever is rendering the previous functionality for writing/editing our articles nearly useless now gets resolved ASAP. Biggest hassle currently is with adding images, both uploaded and Flickr imports.
NV really needs a users and developers group to actively address these kinds of issues.
I was able to add images to my recent articles but I was unable to caption them. Is that the same problem you're experiencing?
I was able to add images to my recent articles but I was unable to caption them. Is that the same problem you're experiencing?
I had that too but it was an on-again, off-again problem. Then you have flickr teasing you with the perfect pic for your article, only to tell you you can't have it once you load it in. Grrrr Sadistic!
For all I know, this could be a browser-specific issue (SeaMonkey/1.1.10 - Mozilla). However, it's not intermittent. Uploaded images don't show in write/edit, nor does the caption edit box - although adding a caption is possible despite the box's physical presence. Also, the text body box ahs the same invisible weirdness. The Flickr button does zilch.
I'll be testing on a few other systems later this evening. Updates to follow, thanks.
Here's a question I hope someone can answer - I know there's history, but is there a place to easily see the total number of comments I or others have made? I mean, would it be interesting to others besides me if beside the vine and the articles written and links seeded there were ... comments posted? There are folks who write little here, but comment a LOT. Another number that helps paint a picture of the person you're talking to (and of how many I've posted, too?) If that's already in place and I don't see it, I'm a dummy. Again. As usual;-) Long live Newsvine!
Go to the Leaderboard, bullet 'of all-time', scroll to the bottom, and look at the comments column.
Thanks, Ben, but I'd prefer to just see it next to folks' names in their postings, like many forums such as Generalforum.com does - maybe as they add avatars etc. that will hapen as well;-)
Since the leaderboard got brought up...I've noticed MSNBC employees making the leaderboard this past week and I don't recall seeing that before. Has it always been that way? Is it going to stay that way?
Has it always been that way? Is it going to stay that way?
No, it hasn't, and I sincerely hope it doesn't because the last vestige of Newsvine as a community would then go. It looks so horrible at the moment seeing all those faceless avatars! Yuk! It really sells the real Newsviners short in what they are doing for the site. :o(
I really think that only Newsvine members should be on the Leaderboard.
I agree MsCyprah - I'm so frustrated. I just wanted to get that 25 just once. I've been 26 and 27 for the past two days - supplanted by MSNBC employees. Really upsetting. It may sound silly, but when you're dealing with unemployment and fighting SSDI for over a year, anything that lets you know you are still contributing helps the old confidence.
Really upsetting. It may sound silly, but when you're dealing with unemployment and fighting SSDI for over a year
Not silly at all, KyanaBelle. It is all about recognition and when you have been putting in a lot of work with some great articles, it is nice to see some kind of reward, even though that is not the priority for being on the Vine. So I can certainly understand your feelings. Hang in there, Girl, it will come!..:o)
Thanks Ms Cyprah! :-)
What fresh hell is this?
Test
When? Man, I haven't even studied yet!
I want my new toy. Now would be nice.
...the super-useful "new" buttons...
My problem is that clicking the green clock "new" button reloads the page rather than just jumping to a point down the page. Likewise the [Back To Top] link at the page bottom.
Is this intentional? Trying to read 20 comments in the same thread means reloading the same page 20 times? To me it reduces the usability (I HATE load times even on a LAN) to the point of uselessness. Once you start adding avatars and flag icons.... no thanks.
Honestly, if this is the way it's going to work, that's probably it for me on Newsvine.
You're experiencing a glitch. It works fine for me.
Chris, please have some patience. The guys are working round the clock to fix every glitch that has appeared due to the new changes. Please report what you are experiencing via the "report a bug" button up top.
I too am losing my place, when I click reply, and have to do it again, but I know they're working on the issues and figure I'm definitely getting my money's worth at my new addictive habit, NV;-)
I'm having the same problem that Chris is having. It is very irritating. Yes I will have faith and exercise patience that they will get it fixed....
What browsers are you guys using? I'm on Firefox 3.03 and my "New" button works fine.
Oh you know, the same ol' boring majority (for now) browser, IE. (It's the only one that works with my work's Content Management System, for example.)
I'm still waiting. And after reading up about these buggettes, I've decided to wait for my new toys. So please guys, can you drop me to the last wave of the rollout. Let the rest be in Beta:-)
Oh you know, the same ol' boring majority (for now) browser, IE. (It's the only one that works with my work's Content Management System, for example.)
I see what you mean. I fired up IE for grins and performance was TERRIBLE! Works great in Firefox, sucks eggs in IE. Interesting.
Apparently the Convo Tracker is on the blink, since I had no idea there were any replies to my comment!
I've been a software developer for over 30 years, so I do understand the process, and I will try to be patient. I'm not entirely sure FireFox's behavior is correct, but I'm not sure what standard would address the issue.
Let me illustrate the problem (Newsvine developers...are you listening?)..
Here's the parameters from the New buttons on Fugitive247's Multiple Group Announcement:
?last=1222547246#last_1
?last=1222547246#last_2
?last=1222547246#last_3
?last=1222547246#last_5
?last=1222547246#last_6
?last=1222547246#master
The presense of the last=1222547246 parameter is (I believe) what makes IE (and perhaps other browsers) treat the URL as needing to be refreshed. If the URL contains only the #last_X, then it clearly is a link within the document.
The addition of the last parameter is new, and it is what is causing the problem with some browsers. I've asked repeatedly, in email and comment, whether this is intentional (perhaps for more accurate Convo Tracking), but so far the question has been ignored.
ALSO, BREAKING NEWS... As of just now, I've apparently been granted access to the new world of comment editing. Not in this thread, but in two I just jumped to in order to grab some New button URLs for this comment.
In both threads, ALL comments consist of just the top banner with the commentor's name, the New button and the Author icon! Apparently all commentors are now Authors, but there are no comments.
I'm going to try logging out and back in....
I have a bug to report.
Chris doesn't appear to be speaking english.
Chris is speaking dev, Dubbya. No biggie, hon. It's all part of the process.
Hi fugi. Late Happy Birthday to you. Your board had no 'contact author' option, or I'd have sent a card/photo. BTW, on Chris' post when I clicked the link to your 'Multiple Group Annoncement'......it told me I was not only 'tracking' it, but that I had 'voted' on it too. Since I had never seen it before I can only assume that the new code was reading my mind.
Go ahead, say it.
Howdy, Dubbya and thanks for the birthday wishes. My contact prefs are set to friends only, so you should have been able to get through. (I just double-checked) Perhaps another bug? I wonder if others may be experiencing the same weirdness...
Well, "friends only" got saved again, so let's see if it's resolved. Thanks again, hon!
Fugitive, I just checked and I don't see contact this author either. Must be a bug, where's the raid!
Dubbya, check your inbox. ;oD
check your inbox
Just did that. You have a gift from my garden on the way.
You know....I like the new toys, but I'm easily confused. Can somebody rewrite my code to cover that?
For what it's worth, I sort of hate the new formatting options.
:)
-
For what it's worth... I do not see any new row of buttons... It might be nice, but I can get along without them... Ctrl+B (for BOLD) ect doesn't seem to do anything either... What am I missing? Must not be one of the "some people"...
BTW- Is there any sort of Newsvine user forum where I can post questions like... We get greater visibility for our articles by getting votes... but how do we get votes when we have no visibility???
or
Why hasn't anyone added "Newsvine" or "Barack" or "Obama" to the spellchecker???
I don't know what is going on all over the place - but just so you know, I've been getting e-mails from ppl who think I am mad at them because the "e-mail author" is now missing. Also, problems have arisen with pictures coming and going and polls vanishing and then returning after you've already made a poll to replace it, which you then can not delete.
Just so no one thinks I'm getting Alzheimer's, I blamed it on you techy folks! LOL!
I have it!!! Now what the hell do I do with it? Hey, nice font...
Paah. I've just got the new toy. And all I get for a thread when going to a discussion is a header for each comment in the thread. The technology beats me dead. How the hell do I open up the thread. About the only bits I can open up are sub-threads that have been collapsed etc by clicking on the + sign. Paah.
I fear that the only way that I am going to be able to read any responses to this comment is if this comment itself gets collapsed - else all I'll see is the flipping header. So here's an incentive to collapse my comment. Just @!$%#ing report this comment, will you!
:-)
he limps off to the corner and sulks.
Okay.... so I logged out, cleared my cache, logged back in, and Newsvine is completely broken. I can't see any comments, but everyone is an Author. Even in my own articles, I can't see any comments, just the comment banner with the user name and the fact that they are an author.
WT Hey?
I have the new comment editor, which is okay, I guess, but the Link and Unlink buttons are greyed out....
Do I need to highlight something? Ah, yes, that's it, you need to highlight something. So the Link and Unlink buttons now work differently from the Bold, Italic and Quote buttons.
Copy and Paste is working weird, too. Odd delay in the paste, and the test doesn't show up at first.
And I'm going to have to break the habit of hitting [Enter] twice between paragraphs....
So far, the balance sheet for me is reading negative, but I'll give it a whirl if they fix the "no comments visible" bug.
Off to report the bug....
That's pretty weird. Everything seems ok to me. Curiouser and curiouser.
It's been working fine for me all day. I'm wondering if it's just broken in IE?
They replied back to my Bug Report that they were working on a fix. No mention of whether the problem was strictly server-side or if it had some IE-related component.
They've rolled me back to the old style, but at least I can see the comments now!
Yeah, that reply thing is a @!$%#. I get vertigo when I hit it the first time and end up about 2 comments sooner.
Okay, I'm back in the new style with the major bugs fixed....
I gotta say the way threads look now is incredibly ugly. Obnoxious. Too many boxes within boxes.
Also, it's not apparent the Reply button is clickable. The mouse cursor doesn't change as it does with other buttons.
I donno. I was fine with the previous editor, I think the new one is serious overkill and I tend to avoid the really long threads. In my book, none of the new stuff is an improvement. Quite the opposite. So far, I hate it.
:-(
ROFL. It won't even show me the comment I just wrote!
I have a couple grievances:
Quotes: After hitting enter it acts like I'm going to put in another quote. Backspacing doesn't work and hitting the quote button again doesn't shut it off.
Since we no longer have to hit enter to double space, I've found that when I go back and edit, I have to put in the double spacing. Never mind, that doesn't seem to be the case anymore.
... and, as expected, all that is working for me now.
Since we no longer have to hit enter to double space, I've found that when I go back and edit, I have to put in the double spacing. Never mind, that doesn't seem to be the case anymore.
I still have problems with that. Doublespace after this paragraph.New paragraph here. Now save and edit comment.
edit: Double spacing disappears after editing a comment.
Quotes: After hitting enter it acts like I'm going to put in another quote. Backspacing doesn't work and hitting the quote button again doesn't shut it off.
I've been having the same problem, but intermittently. (It's obviously working corrently this time , but several other times I couldn't get out of the blockquote without switching to XHTML mode and doing it manually.
For it to work properly, hit the quote button, paste your quoted text, hit ENTER, then hit the quote button again. The only time that I've found that doesn't work properly is if I'm posting a lot of text with blank lines between each line. Then I have to go into XHTML mode and do it manually.
Speaking of quotes there's often a lag as in I hit paste and then it's often at least 10-20 seconds before it posts by which time I've hit paste again.
And as Peter not ed often those comments will disappear so if you should be unlucky enough to have decided to copy something else you're screwed.
Speaking of quotes there's often a lag as in I hit paste and then it's often at least 10-20 seconds before it posts by which time I've hit paste again.
Hmm...you must be really impatient. I haven't had that happen to me....yet. It's instantaneous when I paste.
H&R D by Z
For it to work properly, hit the quote button, paste your quoted text, hit ENTER, then hit the quote button again.
It works 1. hit quote button 2. hit enter, The third step fails as you can see
3. Hit the Quote button again - does not work for me. The quote will not turn off.
I am using Flock and must go to Wide Screen mode to get quote to work correctly.
H&R D by Z, With Flock in Wide Screen Mode I get the right result.
For it to work properly, hit the quote button, paste your quoted text, hit ENTER, then hit the quote button again.
1. I go wide screen mode 2. paste my quote. 3. hit quote button 4. hit enter 5. exit wide screen mode. Once I am back in normal mode I can continue to write as I am doing now.
I am using Flock and I found how to get quoting to work perfectly for me. As you read comments select quotes you want to respond to and drag them to the Flock "web clipboard"
1. select quote 2. copy 3. I go wide screen mode 4. paste my quote. 5. hit quote button 6. hit enter 7. exit wide screen mode. Once I am back in normal mode I can continue to write as I am doing now.
I have moved from my Flock 7 step process to Three Steps 1. select quote 2. drag to web clipboard 3. drag into comment.
I am happy again :-)
Stupid question # 536 from me. With the post comment button gone how do I get to the bottom of a thread without having to scroll all the way through it?
The END key on your keyboard works quite nicely for that purpose.
Cool-- thanks, now I have one more button I know what is for, that only leaves about 15 or so to go.
You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead. |