On Nations, Intimacy, and the Future

I'm looking at New Newsvine's tour page today. That means it's getting close. I'm excited and anxious.

There's an essay that web entrepreneur Anil Dash (NSFW language, right in the headline) wrote in 2011 that I keep coming back to as we prepare to launch. I gravitate to this paragraph:

I realized that one of the reasons people don't understand how I've had such a wonderful response from all of you over the years is because they simply don't believe great conversations can happen on the web. Fortunately, I have seen so much proof to the contrary.

So have I. I've had a wonderful time here, and I've met great folks through this site. I learn as much from discussions as from articles.

Dash, later in the essay:

When you engage with a community online in a constructive way, it can be one of the most meaningful experiences of your life. It doesn't have to be polite, or neat and tidy, or full of everyone agreeing with each other. It just has to not be hateful and destructive.

From Mike D's initial email to Beta testers:

Communities, like trees, don't grow to the sky.

A cocktail party with five close friends is a great time. A luncheon with 100 acquaintances is a great time. Even an event with 500 colleagues can be a great time. But an event with 50,000 or more people is no longer a social gathering at all. It's just a big glob of people talking past each other.

For this reason, we've come to the realization that for Newsvine to continue growing but at the same time regain the intimacy it was once lauded for, we need to stop treating Newsvine as one community of 40 million people and start creating thousands of communities of much fewer people.

To help realize this goal, we're creating an entirely new construct on Newsvine that we call "Newsvine Nations". From now on, all of your activity on Newsvine, whether it be writing articles, seeding links, or participating in discussion threads will be done within the scope of what Nations you are a part of. In other words, the concept of a global discussion thread where everyone on Newsvine can talk past each other is being de-emphasized. When you discuss things on the site, you will now be discussing them with a much more familiar set of community members: the community members who choose to be in the same Nations you choose to be in.

Bolding's mine. There's a lot changing in New Newsvine, but this is the biggest change. To grow, we must convene differently. I'm convinced that Nations presents that opportunity.

Discuss this post

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When I explain my job to folks, people often recoil. The hate mail. The repetitive arguments. Quelle horreur. I respond that that stuff isn't nearly as frustrating as two feelings:

  • That the job seems to expand further beyond your grasp every day. The more traffic success Newsvine has, the harder it's become to moderate.
  • That the job is more getting in users' way than out of it. Moderation is inherently an interjection into pre-existing discourse.

I'm incredibly hopeful that New Newsvine solves both those feelings.

I'm working on updating the Newsvine Nations section in the Knowledge Base. It's worth a look if you're interested.

  • 7 votes
Reply#1 - Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:59 PM EST

Hi, Tyler -

I did take a look, and here's the part that concerns me: "Invite Only: Prevents other users from requesting access, but this setting does not mean it is PRIVATE."

I've belonged to a private "group" on Newsvine for a couple of years now - and while I'm well aware that nothing posted anywhere on the Internet is actually 100% "private", I've always felt secure there and now consider the other members close friends with whom I can share anything. To lose this ability once you switch to all-public "nations" - let alone thinking that our previous private discussions will now become public - would be nothing short of devastating. Any suggestions?

  • 9 votes
#1.1 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:18 AM EST

let alone thinking that our previous private discussions will now become public

This won't happen, JoAnne in PA.

However, it doesn't look like New Newsvine will launch with private Nation support. So the past private discussions will be preserved, but to continue using it, a group admin would have to make their group into a Nation, necessarily making it...not-private.

I'm thinking we'll disable the ability to make private groups Nations to ensure nothing in those private groups is revealed.

I updated a support entry about this.

  • 4 votes
#1.2 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:39 PM EST

Our avatars are showing on each comment! Gorgeous, and how exciting.

  • 1 vote
#1.3 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:45 PM EST

ambi

Isn't that so cool!!!!! I love it....

  • 1 vote
#1.4 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:03 PM EST

Tyler - Appreciate the reply, though am (understandably?) very disappointed. We've enjoyed our time on Newsvine, but without the privacy, our group members will all obviously have to go elsewhere. I find it hard to believe that we're the only private group this will happen with, but perhaps private groups aren't money-makers and therefore no great loss to Newsvine? In any case, up till now have only heard vague and often conflicting rumors about what's going on with the change. Hope that all the previously private groups will be given ample notice if and when the change is made. Thanks.....

  • 7 votes
#1.5 - Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:21 PM EST

It's really hard to see links w/ this grey text, so I just noticed Tyler's in his reply to JoAnne. Methinks NV needs to do something about what happens when you click it:

There is a problem with this website's security
certificate.

The security
certificate presented by this website was issued for a different website's
address.

Security certificate
problems may indicate an attempt to fool you or intercept any data you send to
the server.

We recommend that you close this webpage and do not
continue to this website.

Click here to close this
webpage.

Continue to this website (not recommended).

More
information

  • If you arrived at this page by clicking a link, check the
    website address in the address bar to be sure that it is the address you were
    expecting.
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    https://example.com, try adding the 'www' to the address,
    https://www.example.com.

    For more information, see "Certificate Errors" in
    Internet Explorer Help.

    • 9 votes
    #1.6 - Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:53 PM EST

    Hope that all the previously private groups will be given ample notice if and when the change is made. Thanks....

    JoAnne in PA, everyone in a private group will definitely be made aware of the changes and have the options to decide what they wish to do with it.

    I hope you stick around and try out the New Newsvine, you may ended up liking it, even without private groups.

    • 4 votes
    #1.7 - Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:57 PM EST

    Tyler,

    The Newsvine "nations" idea would seem to stuff people into a corner so that their ideas could not reach those who would oppose them. Those who think alike really don't need to hear EVERYONE else saying the same things. I agree that there can be offensive language used, but the idea of differing sides being able to voice their opinion is the basis of this country. The "nations" proposal seems to go against this. How is this good? Or am I understanding this wrong?

    • 4 votes
    #1.8 - Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:32 AM EST

    we need to stop treating Newsvine as one community of 40 million people and start creating thousands of communities of much fewer people.

    So in English that means continue to segregate the masses to divide and conquer. Isn't that the same strategy being used by the POTUS as well. I guess it's just another coincidence we would see the same strategy being used on an NBC owned site as we see coming from the same folks that provide NBC with their talking points.

    • 4 votes
    #1.9 - Tue Feb 5, 2013 4:21 PM EST

    Mike, it's 'divided' in groups already But not on the Front page or in Beta which I hope they keep also...at least for awhile & Newsvine Blog ..for awhile. So that's Three that are All Public...As to groups, hmmm Photographers, Music, Poetry, Art, all 21 of the catagories.

    Kinda looks like it was already 'conquered'....LOL Just fewer seeded blogs ..which are Opinions & are the writers are being Paid to have them for the most part. But I won't swear that's going to slow them down Except in some nations.

    • 1 vote
    #1.10 - Tue Feb 5, 2013 4:33 PM EST

    Just an update as I have logged in since the change.....it sucks.

      #1.11 - Thu Feb 7, 2013 7:06 PM EST
      Reply

      Tyler: Thanks for posting this. Will you also post on how we Viners can avoid all the "Ad Sense" approval issues (we need to be "approved" to make money for them??)? Can you comment on why the number of suspensions/bans seems to be down despite the increased amount of spam and of COH violations?

      You mention "prepare to launch." Are we "worthy" of being told some information on this??

      • 6 votes
      #2 - Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:02 PM EST

      Will you also post on how we Viners can avoid all the "Ad Sense" approval issues (we need to be "approved" to make money for them??)?

      Yes. Forthcoming.

      Can you comment on why the number of suspensions/bans seems to be down despite the increased amount of spam and of COH violations?

      I can say that Sally and I's jobs have morphed and continue to and that part of the expectation for New Newsvine is that there will be less suspensions and bans and more community building. And I can apologize. Sorry. We still try to get to everything. I'm particularly enthused about some new comment spam prevention things we're cooking up.

      Are we "worthy" of being told some information on this??

      Absolutely. Look for more information in this Newsvine Blog space. As soon as I know a launch date, the community will.

      • 6 votes
      #2.1 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:43 PM EST

      I can say that Sally and I's jobs

      *Sally's job & mine....* or just *our jobs*. (Teacher mode kicked in, sorry. If I didn't do it, dslsca The Newsvine Parsing English Prof would've :P We're all about the Get Smarter Here thing & are universally reviled for taking out our red pens.)

      that part of the expectation for New Newsvine is that there will be less suspensions and bans and more community building

      Might I belabor the obvs? It's not *New Newsvine Time* quite yet.

      And there has been soooooooo much blatant, smug, smirking, stalking, tag-teaming, gang-banging, harassing, insulting, in your face, flagrant, CoH violating going on since the beginning of Dec (do you think I used enough adjectives?), it's insane. Word is out & they think they can get away w/ anything b/c they are getting away w/ it. And now you've just confirmed it for them. It's even worse now than it was at elections!

      I'm more of a mid-timer than an old-timer. I got here soon after you did. I'm rather unhappy at the lg number of 'Viners on my FL who have been here longer than I have deleting their columns down to nothing b/c of the vile attacks launched at them.

      It's pretty sad when the likes of Dowser can't put up an article (not a seed) as a place for 'Viners to grieve for Sandy Hook w/o getting annihilated by a passel of presumptuous jumped-up noobs whose sole reason to be here seems to be disruption & chaos.

      I don't think NV was designed w/ the intent for wild animal packs (& that's insulting the wild animals) to reduce nice ppl like Dowser to tears simply for trying to do something nice. Bitemore's leaving due to the same level of nastiness. Grae's leaving b/c he keeps getting articles collapsed & nothing is ever done about it. Darrah left b/c she was constantly harassed by those who don't like Southern liberal dyslexic pagans (surprisingly, quite a lg grp for such a narrow subset of humanity as Darrah). I could list more who are tidying up & on their way out or just done & dusted already.

      Don't even tell me *Nations* will avoid that sort of carnage. It will not. It will just make it worse & pretty soon it's going to be no better than Fox Nation over here. A Nation has no control over *The Trough* or who clips their content & trashes it to smithereens, which is going to destroy the citizen journalism concept entirely.

      Is that the goal, to have garbage seeds & garbage moderation, instead of original content & good moderation? Why would anyone bother writing an article when the unthreaded chaos of the public discussion hot mess area can gleefully take a steaming dump all over it, or some other Nation can clip it & do the same, not for any purpose, but b/c their little posse doesn't like yours & wants to drive it out of business & dump you & your members back into the Trough for easier pickings?

      What is the point of huddling fearfully behind gates in little enclaves? Yeah, yeah, *community bldg*. Behind the portcullis where the howling mob masses. That's not bldg a community, sorry. It's bldg HS cliques. Ppl should not be forced into joining a grp for self-preservation or be reduced to the LCD in the swill. This concept has no middle ground in it.

      W/ there being no more AP feeds soon, where is the Trough's swill going to originate from? Yeah, from breaking into Nations. B/c you're playing Risk at NBC as well.

      I HATE that FB thing in there BTW, get rid of it! No one in their right mind wants to give the bat@!$%# crazy contingent an additional place to stalk! You don't see anyone using it at NV except for drive-bys.

      I don't see why what you're going to do on NBC can't be done at NV, rather than forcing us into tightly segregated shoeboxes. NBC Nations will, I bet, be based on the current NBC categories. First Read Nation. NBC Latino Nation. Today Nation. Dateline Nation. Etc.

      Well, why can't that be done here? We already have categorization. Politics Vine. History Vine. World News Vine. Sports Vine. Etc.

      And then let ppl further narrow it down if they want. Sane Politics Vine. Ye Olde History Vine (what was wrong w/ calling grps *Vines* instead of a BTDT thing like Nations, anyway?). Middle East News Vine. NHL Vine. Etc.

      Go down one more level & have offshoots of the 2nd tier of grps. Sane NY Politics Vine. Ye Olde Tudor History Vine. Egypt News Vine. O Canada NHL Vine. Etc.

      Voila. You got your broad communities of the same categories that everyone can join w/ no limits, & you got your specialized subset communities of these wide-ranging topics, & even further into smaller interest areas if there's a need for it.

      Nations are pushing everyone into the narrowest interest level. Seriously, do y'all want a Nation for, say, every single team in the NHL? Every single candidate for political office? Every single epoch of history? Every single country in the world's news?

      All of them rattling echo chambers b/c you can only get 3 ppl to join it due to the restriction game? Yeah, that's a great use of server space.

      Except for those who got carried away [*coughcoughMcSpockycough*], you're not going to get rid of the junk currently lying around, it's just going to transition over. There's still going to be duplicates b/c you allowed them to be created in the 1st place. I don't see what this accomplishes save for pissing off ppl who are going to not only lose their FL (which is just dumb, sorry; all *social media* has one), but daily contact w/ many friends b/c they have to dump enough grps to get under the limit.

      And what happens when some new hip happenin' place opens up & you're already at 15? Who ya gonna dump now? You're just setting us up for rancor & strife by forcing ppl to decide *who* is more important.

      15 is no *sweet spot*. It's a joke for everyone except the extreme political junkies. The rest of us aren't so narrow-minded.

      B/c really, if you're trying to encourage community bldg, how does that help? What you should've done was allow unlimited membership in any # of Nations.

      The Nations are going to be there anyway, why not use them for as wide a reach as possible? Why let ppl make them so they can sit & wilt b/c their friends are at the limit & don't want to generate even more hurt feelings by dumping another one? No one is going to let in someone they don't *know* & feel is trustworthy, so how are noobs ever supposed to integrate & learn anything?

      Now if you had said NV is limiting grp ownership to no more than 15 grps per user, I'd be OK w/ that. Any more is asking for trouble b/c you can't possibly moderate them all & still mind your own column. It would make ppl think b4 mindlessly pushing buttons, garnering some quality stuff instead of brainfarts that have no substance. It would clutter up the server less.

      But only 15 to join? Um, no. You're going to find that to be a huge sticking pt prompting a huge exodus if you keep on that path. You're deliberately making a mess out of the public discussion to force ppl into Nations, yet you refuse to give them much of a choice in doing it.

      B4 this goes sitewide, y'all need to raise that limitation. It ain't sweet. No one is happy about it. Is that the pt of it? To dump your older demographic in favor of ushering in the teenybopper contingent & becoming MySpace Lite? Except for Leafy, how's that been working out for y'all so far?

      I honestly do not understand this limit being set so low. You know we all hate it. Compromise a little. It's a teeny little code alteration to change a # setting b4 we hit the wall, c'mon. You can't go up even the smallest bit to 20 or 25 to give ppl a little breathing rm & not feel so pressured & claustrophobic?

      Jeez, even the old MSN Communities limit started at 100 back in the late 90s. When it rolled over into MSN Grps after a major software upgrade in 2003, the join limit was cut in half to 50, w/ ownership limited to 25 grps, & no one hardly noticed b/c no one had gone anywhere near the wall. I think 25 is far more reasonable a figure.

      Your 3 major beta sticking pts are A) no FL B) limited to 15 Nations & C) the entire Nations concept in general, as it leaves ppl no choice in the matter.

      Christ, now I'm sounding like some Constitutional fanatic LOL *Live Free or DIE!* (actual NH state motto & most of the title of a fine Die Hard sequel)

      I think if NV compromised on A & B by putting the FL back & raising the Nations limit by 10, C would become less of a bone of contention. I'm not saying ppl will jump for joy over being nudged into corrals, b/c they won't. But if there were more corrals available & they could find their FL, they'd resign themselves to Nations w/ a lot less whinging in your inbox.

      Well, I didn't mean to write a book when I sat down here, but alas, I did. I'm long-winded, sue me :P

      I'm also a cynical pessimist who always thinks the glass is half-empty, so that *if* I discover it's really half-full instead, I can be pleasantly surprised. Starting out w/ low expectations can be a good thing.

      My expectations for New NV are in the sub-basement crawlspace atm. Unfortunately, it's sounding more & more like I will not be pleasantly surprised. What's it gaining NV to be so stubborn & uncompromising over those 3 universally loathed concepts? Not users. Ppl are already established at HuffPo, Newser, News Talkers, McCann's grp (forget the name). They're gone. I miss Darrah :-(

      Pleasantly surprise me. Surprise all of us. Quit fixing stuff that ain't broke. Quit alienating the user base. Give beta that little tweak it needs to be met w/ something other than boos. (And for Pete's sake, please take care of these current out of control trolls w/ their garbage seeds, 2-sentence *articles*, attacking, derailing, insulting comments, & rubbish moderation!)

      • 18 votes
      #2.2 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:12 PM EST

      I've never read a novel so quickly.

      Very well said, scar_tissue.

      • 9 votes
      #2.3 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:19 PM EST

      She does write well..
      Yes and expresses herself very well
      Scar brought up a lot of points that a lot of us are wondering

      • 9 votes
      #2.4 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:22 PM EST

      Tyler: I'll second what Scar says above, including the compliment (?) to me.

      I want to make sure you understand my point I made elsewhere on your post here as your response to me didn't convince me you "got" what I meant. Revenues for Newsvine are generated by views of the pages we write and seed. The problem with AdSense isn't just that "subdomains" and such are being blocked. The problem is that, if AdSense is making money from people looking at our stuff, they need to PAY us for that and no "approval" is required--just payment.

      • 8 votes
      #2.5 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:27 PM EST

      I have to agree that people are really out of control lately, and no one is stopping them.

      I'm bummed out that people are fleeing, also.

      A lot of valid points, scar.

      • 11 votes
      #2.6 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:42 PM EST

      Scar, you didn't miss a thing. Excellent job of telling it like it is. (What i really want to know is if you actually typed that, or if you used voice recognition? ..lol..) Wellllll.. in one of my numerous 'whines,' I believe I understand the objectives for the changes, but I don't see the change as an improvement in the big scheme of things. The 'Community' concept could have been added to public groups, while allowing us to retain a 'topic' commonality. I'm disappointed they didn't try that first.

      • 5 votes
      #2.7 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:23 PM EST

      So sorry, I had to post a little something to ST's fantastic post. I have been here 2-1/2 years. I just recently had someone admit, with pride (used that exact word), that he/she is one that helps collapse articles without even commenting on the article. WTH? I was shocked. I couldn't believe it. I've said it before - I was shocked at the viner's admission itself and sickened at the pride with which the comment was put forth. And then to find out this has been going on for some time?! Are these the same people who are arbiters of the speed limit on freeways in the passing lane? How about avoiding the article? How about putting that person on ignore? Why are you taking down something I may have wanted to peruse? When I questioned, "so that means you're the NV police?", the response was "theoretically we all are." Count me out. If I don't agree with an article or the issue offends me, I change channels.

      I can almost hear their smug "don't underestimate us" while they high five each other and gloat at their perceived power. How can this happen? I'm naive. I admit it. I'm not sure I would have believed it but for the boastful viner's admission.

      • 10 votes
      #2.8 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:01 PM EST

      Somewhere near the end of this thread I ask Sally, Tyler and whoever is pushing these changes to look at snicki's vote count. It IS pertinent. It is a hint of the pulse on the Vine. A hint of how the regular Vine visitor will react. No more earning 45 cents a week posting seeds and articles, who really cares? The people who used to make real milk $ have already moved on because of the trolls, hostility and gangs here and elsewhere; it's asymptomatic of our national politics. You can no longer be a unique psychedelic chess board, you must be a standard chess board and choose either black or white, no middle ground, no hope of compromise.

      We abhor the violence in our culture and the availability of too many guns that allows every injured, damaged or weakened person to lash out inappropriately at society. One of our third shift employees was lamenting his lot in life last Thursday night, absolutely despising his job, but confident that when he graduated from a Center City Business School he would, in the future, laugh about this low time in his life and wonder what his life could have been like instead.

      Friday, in reaction to some piece of mail from his school, he visited his college campus and shot it up with several handguns, wounding several people, one critically; whose survival holds the key to our employee's future. Rumor has it, he was a regular, angry, Vine contributor, but who who knows.

      How can we be sure.

      Rumor & innuendo.

      God Bless & Help America

      • 5 votes
      #2.9 - Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:43 AM EST

      cobaltblue-1847191 -- #2.8 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:01 PM PST

      he/she is one that helps collapse articles without even commenting on the article.

      What's the point of commenting? You drop in on an article/seed, and tell the owner there's a problem with it, and they tell you to @!$%# off. @!$%#'em.

      Precedent: Proper Categorization: It's the right thing to do

      • 5 votes
      #2.10 - Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:59 AM EST

      I just recently had someone admit, with pride (used that exact word), that he/she is one that helps collapse articles without even commenting on the article.

      Cobalt, was that a private admission, or on a seed/article?

      If the latter, do enlighten us w/ a link. Perhaps Tyler will do something about it.

      What's the point of commenting? You drop in on an article/seed, and tell the owner there's a problem with it, and they tell you to @!$%# off. @!$%#'em.

      O, BS. If ppl are routinely telling one to *@!$%# off* for a genuine concern, that's not saying much for the places one frequents & the company one keeps on NV, is it? It may seem as if rude prats are a majority, but they're really not. Most ppl would want to be told if they've made a mistake so they can fix it. It's only those whose egos can't handle that who may spit in one's face.

      Precedent: Proper Categorization: It's the right thing to do

      What, are you McCann's CoH heir apparent?

      Cobalt isn't even talking about that, so it's irrelevant.

      What she's talking about are ppl who don't like the seeder/author or the title, don't even bother to read or offer commentary, just lunge for the collapse button & call all their pals over to do it, too.

      That's deliberate censorship, not *being helpful* or *following rules*. Malice aforethought is not one of the choices.

      Once in a while I see a seed/article *I* think should be removed. But since I'm not a self-proclaimed CoH interpretation expert, I will inquire if it falls under such & such category of misconduct, & ask should it be removed as a result of that.

      Usually my interpretation isn't correct. Which is why so many collapsed seeds end up getting restored. They were maliciously removed in the 1st place.

      • 7 votes
      #2.11 - Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:46 PM EST

      If the latter, do enlighten us w/ a link. Perhaps Tyler will do something about it.

      What's Tyler going to do? The CoH is quite clear:

      If you see something disrespectful or inappropriate, report it - rather than further inflaming the situation.

      If you think somebody is gang-collapsing articles, you put their name in a Report, and let Staff take care of it. You don't harass them about it, that will just make them lay low, and they'll never get caught.

      If ppl are routinely telling one to *@!$%# off* for a genuine concern,

      OK, maybe I embellished a little. But there are people on Newsvine who think their message is so important, that they're entitled to publish wherever the mood strikes them, and they'll go so far as to delete your comment as "off topic" if you try to tell them different. Some of the most "respectable" Viners will do that, so I don't bother any more.

      If somebody gets kicked off a flight for not wearing panties, that's not Politics, that's Travel.

      Unless the Pope died, an article on religion belongs in the Religion category, not World News. Here's an example I can cite: miscategorized 2012/01/06 because the author is now banned. If they'll argue with a Moderator, what effect am I going to have?

      But since I'm not a self-proclaimed CoH interpretation expert,

      It looks like argumentum verbosium is more your specialty.

      They were maliciously removed in the 1st place.

      You'd be surprised, how infrequently that actually happens. Most of the time, it's Miscategorized, or Inaccurate, or using the headline to editorialize, plagiarized, or copyright infringed, all of which are covered in the CoH.

      • 5 votes
      #2.12 - Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:01 AM EST

      What's Tyler going to do?

      I dunno, maybe be curious enough to click a link that is notifying him of inappropriate behavior, on his own article, & then take the appropriate action? (They do seem to be backed up on reports lately.)

      It looks like argumentum verbosium is more your specialty

      You say that like it's a bad thing :P

      I say, scroll on past if more than one sentence or paragraph is too daunting to digest.

      Most of the time, it's Miscategorized, or Inaccurate, or using the headline to editorialize, plagiarized, or copyright infringed, all of which are covered in the CoH.

      As I said, reasonable, rational ppl would appreciate a heads up to an error like that so it can be fixed (the most frequent mistake is miscategorization)....not a gang collapse as per cobalt's related experience w/ someone who's *proud* to erase words w/ which he fails to agree.

      It's ironic how many of those *my way of the highway* types turn out to be the most vocal Constitutional rights supporters, yet don't see what they're doing is against the spirit of it....in addition to violating CoH &/or UA.

      • 6 votes
      #2.13 - Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:58 PM EST

      maybe be curious enough to click a link that is notifying him of inappropriate behavior, on his own article, & then take the appropriate action?

      1. When you make an accusation against someone that's not present on the article to defend themselves, it's a violation of the CoH.
      2. This isn't Tyler's column.
      3. If a report is sent in via the contact form, it increases the chance it will be acted on, since if Tyler doesn't see it, Sally will.
      4. What do you need a name for? Planning a little revenge?

      It looks like argumentum verbosium is more your specialty

      You say that like it's a bad thing :P

      I guess you didn't look that up...

      I say, scroll on past if more than one sentence or paragraph is too daunting to digest.

      I read everything. You think my ban list gets filled all by itself?

      reasonable, rational ppl would appreciate a heads up to an error like that

      There's a lot of people here who claim to follow the COH, but in reality they just forgot how to spell COugH.

      not a gang collapse as per cobalt's related experience w/ someone who's *proud* to erase words w/ which he fails to agree.

      You don't have the tools to prove that is happening. Staff does.

      It's ironic how many of those *my way of the highway* types turn out to be the most vocal Constitutional rights supporters,

      Just who are you pointing fingers at? The Constitution doesn't apply to Newsvine. Does Not Compute: Newsvine, Still Not A Country

      • 4 votes
      #2.14 - Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:49 PM EST

      The site runs amok with trolls and some viners scream for management to "do their job." Yet the site is overrun with inaccurate posting of articles and seeds and viners are OK with it. WTF? We don't get to pick and choose the rules to follow. This is a self-policing site. We are to report violations of the COH and UA, all of them. Some of you won't hesitate to report use of the "F" word which is not against code. Those same people can't see how miscategorization of an article creates chaos to the whole scheme. It's like putting Aesop's Fables in the non-fiction section of the library. Those looking for it can't find it and those wanting to find non-fiction get annoyed by all the fluff in their way. So why are you fighting those of us who try to keep this site orderly enough to find things where they are supposed to be?

      • 7 votes
      #2.15 - Mon Jan 14, 2013 11:45 AM EST

      1.When you make an accusation against someone that's not present on the article to defend themselves, it's a violation of the CoH.

      It's hardly an accusation if it's true & the person's own words are out there to hang them, is it?

      At any rate, I didn't see cobalt naming names, so that's rather irrelevant.

      2.This isn't Tyler's column.

      I didn't say it was Tyler's column. I said it was his article. Blog entry, if you prefer. It's still his authorship & he is still its moderator. Just b/c he chooses not to reply doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't read responses. Fall back to CoH #4.

      3.If a report is sent in via the contact form, it increases the chance it will be acted on, since if Tyler doesn't see it, Sally will.

      Not lately. It seems as if the holidays have created a bit of a backlog.

      Also, Tyler did say something along the lines of not doing as many suspensions & bannings. I recall Sally saying a while ago that death wishing & re-regging were going to be about the only things they'd act upon apres beta.

      4.What do you need a name for? Planning a little revenge?

      Yes, b/c I have that superpower. (That was sarcasm.)

      I think many of us have been wondering who's behind the alleged gang collapsing gang if said allegation is true.

      I guess you didn't look that up...

      I don't have to. I knew what you meant.

      Others, however, may not have known. If you prefer to be known as that guy who insulted me by stating I've nothing of real substance to say whilst using lots of big words to do it & that somehow frightens Newsviners into whimpering submission b/c they're too stupid to get it, who am I to stand in your way by making light of it to cover your....accusation?

      It doesn't appear to be all that complex or intimidating, seeing as you managed to compose a reply.

      Deal, or scroll. Them's your choices if you don't like it.

      I read everything.

      That's physically impossible.

      You think my ban list gets filled all by itself?

      I think it gets filled by merely visiting Tyler's & Sally's columns to create a digest of their daily disciplinary comments. It's not that hard & it wouldn't take all that long.

      You don't have the tools to prove that is happening. Staff does.

      Which is why I suggested cobalt let Tyler know about it.

      They really don't need a toolbox to crack this one if this user is openly bragging about participation in it, do they?

      Just who are you pointing fingers at?

      Read-over if you didn't get it.

      The Constitution doesn't apply to Newsvine.

      Figured someone would jump on that. Also figured the same erroneous conclusion would be made if someone did.

      • 8 votes
      #2.16 - Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:57 PM EST

      *Sally's job & mine....* or just *our jobs*.

      English major head hang of guilt.

      Don't even tell me *Nations* will avoid that sort of carnage. It will not. It will just make it worse & pretty soon it's going to be no better than Fox Nation over here.

      I've read Fox Nation threads. I strongly disagree. *shudders*

      Well, why can't that [large communities around sections] be done here?

      It could. I anticipate a few very large general politics Nations.

      Jeez, even the old MSN Communities limit started at 100 back in the late 90s.

      When thinking about New Newsvine, the designers, developers and us relative luddites on staff did a lot of looking at communities, including the ones you mentioned. There's precious little ripping off in the design and structure of the new site. It's not MySpace Lite or MSN communities or Fox Nation. It's pretty different.

      You can't go up even the smallest bit to 20 or 25 to give ppl a little breathing rm & not feel so pressured & claustrophobic?

      Not now. Maybe later.

      My expectations for New NV are in the sub-basement crawlspace atm. Unfortunately, it's sounding more & more like I will not be pleasantly surprised.

      scar_tissue, I'm glad that you're so passionate about Newsvine. That was a wonderful comment. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised, though.

      • 6 votes
      #2.17 - Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:41 PM EST

      Well scar, being that members that I am friends with OPENLY discussed 'taking care' of an article that was not to their liking I believe you are walking down the correct path. The article where those comments took place is now gone as well. The time I spend here is down from unhealthy to piddling. My four year anniversary is this month. I am grieving. I was here for the overthrow of the Frog Prince and now the evolution to overt conversation about collapsing. Sickening. I didn't bother to report.

      • 6 votes
      #2.18 - Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:52 AM EST

      article where those comments took place is now gone as well

      not all of them

      Sickening

      yep it is

      • 4 votes
      #2.19 - Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:57 AM EST

      Snort.

      • 2 votes
      #2.20 - Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:53 AM EST

      English major head hang of guilt.

      LOL Teacher reflex here.

      It could. I anticipate a few very large general politics Nations

      I like the way I cruise. Are there still going to be categories up top?

      Not now. Maybe later.

      Sigh.

      Still think it's a mistake. We don't like winnowing nice things! :-(

      OK, then can someone pay attn to my 11dy6,00th bug report instead? I can't publish anything to my own grp b/c it starts w/ a *Y* & the list cuts off around *S*. There's no more *see more grps* button. It's a periodic glitch that seems to have become permanent. I'm tired of clipping myself. Can you prod someone to fix it again?

      I also sent you an email a cpl wks ago about an abandoned grp (owner self-deleted) I want. I got nothin'. Except loss of my admin powers! There's crap that needs deleting. How long does it take to scroll thru your inbox? Seriously. I figure you get lots of email from NVers & I am stuck on pg 5 or something. Have a looksee, please.

      I think you'll be pleasantly surprised, though.

      I best be. I'll only get more long-winded if I'm not, yknow :P

      Well scar, being that members that I am friends with OPENLY discussed 'taking care' of an article that was not to their liking I believe you are walking down the correct path. The article where those comments took place is now gone as well. The time I spend here is down from unhealthy to piddling. My four year anniversary is this month. I am grieving. I was here for the overthrow of the Frog Prince and now the evolution to overt conversation about collapsing. Sickening. I didn't bother to report.

      I was wondering where that went, neenie :-( I clicked on it to see, & got that stupid *collapsed by community* msg & was all WTF? Neenie don't write no turd blossoms, why is she collapsed?

      That's so freakin' ridic. But just b/c the article was collapsed doesn't mean it can't be retrieved & the comments seen by TPTB, yknow. I'd report the mo'fo's.

      On a daily basis. Until Tyler clears out his inbox & answers you.

      You hear that, Tyler? :P Apres moi, le deluge. Get busy!

      • 3 votes
      #2.21 - Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:36 AM EST

      Okay, Scar...I got to the part where you mentioned a "Ye Olde Tudor History" vine and I'd just like to say YES, I would LOVE to be able to discuss that!

      Now, going back to read the rest of it...but I wanted to be sure you knew that before I forgot...my attention span is getting shorter in my old age!

      • 1 vote
      #2.22 - Fri Feb 1, 2013 5:02 PM EST
      Reply

      I'm excited but may spend many befuddled hours getting used to the New Vine. I hate change but I love the vine. Just try to scare me away.

      • 5 votes
      Reply#3 - Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:23 PM EST

      yes looking forward to the new changes on the Vine and a big thanks to Tyler

      He does a tremendous and sometimes thankless job...Thank you! Tyler

      Can't wait for the NewVine

      • 3 votes
      #3.1 - Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:54 PM EST

      I hate change but I love the vine. Just try to scare me away.

      I don't enjoy the super-long testing phase. I just want it to be out! And we'll try to keep the befuddled hours to a minimum. I want to answer every question one can think of over here.

      • 5 votes
      #3.2 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:40 PM EST

      Does Arlene work for NV? I have never seen her post anything but cheerleading for beta, so I wondered.

      • 6 votes
      #3.3 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:33 PM EST
      Reply

      I am hoping this does make a change for the better.

      • 4 votes
      Reply#4 - Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:28 PM EST

      I'm very excited for all the changes, and though it will take some getting used to, I am very hopeful it will be a big improvement!

      • 3 votes
      Reply#5 - Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:35 PM EST

      Even babies appreciate a change every now and then. My only concern is if I will still be able to post to All of Newsvine or must I become a member of the fifteen largest nations to get the most coverage. For now I will continue to strive for a Nation that all members want to join.

      • 5 votes
      Reply#6 - Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:36 PM EST

      My only concern is if I will still be able to post to All of Newsvine.

      Good question. I am not sure myself, but I will find out and get back to you!

      • 5 votes
      #6.1 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:19 PM EST

      Thanks, Sally. As you are no doubt aware I consider Newsvine for news first and community second. I also like to think my efforts are at least exposed to the entire community rather than a few. Thanks for being here.

      • 4 votes
      #6.2 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:40 PM EST

      news first and community second.

      Nice comment, oldfogey. Happy to read that I'm not the only one that thinks as such.

      • 4 votes
      #6.3 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:17 PM EST

      My only concern is if I will still be able to post to All of Newsvine or must I become a member of the fifteen largest nations to get the most coverage.

      I just checked and it looks like this feature will be going away. You will be able to publish to your nations though.

      • 2 votes
      #6.4 - Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:08 PM EST

      I just checked and it looks like this feature will be going away.

      Woops, I'm wrong. We are keeping this feature until further notice!

      • 3 votes
      #6.5 - Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:00 PM EST

      Suggestion: it'd be nice if the Nations had a name under the card in the Manage Nations grouping of avatars. All I see is Open Card when I run my cursor over the Nation avatar. A detail

      • 2 votes
      #6.6 - Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:19 PM EST

      Say what? How can you manage stuff you can't see?

      This does not bode well.

      O, & BTW, Sally, I talk lots & I want my earnings. What are y'all going to do about the fact that we never got pd for the last few mos, y'all just emptied accts w/ no notice, & no one can get into AdSense anymore?

      • 4 votes
      #6.7 - Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:40 AM EST

      Suggestion: it'd be nice if the Nations had a name under the card in the Manage Nations grouping of avatars.

      Check back now, this has been added!

      • 1 vote
      #6.8 - Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:15 PM EST
      Reply

      I hope you increase the number of groups we can belong to....I also noticed I can't clip this to my column, why?

      • 7 votes
      Reply#7 - Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:37 PM EST

      It is my understanding that we are sticking to our guns with a 15 nation limit. However, you will be able to comment on articles from gated nations that you aren't a member of. You just won't be able to post seeds and articles in those nations.

      Clipping is not available in the new Newsvine, as of now.

      • 4 votes
      #7.1 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:18 PM EST

      Ok, thank you

      I noticed we can't clip...thanks

      ummm, what is gated? I know I am dense at times :)

      One thing I really really like about beta, is when you reply to someone it puts their name in and says replying to.....that is a very nice feature...

      Will the new comments come back on beta, I have them then I don't it goes back and forth.

      • 2 votes
      #7.2 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:05 PM EST

      One thing I really really like about beta, is when you reply to someone it puts their name in and says replying to.....that is a very nice feature...

      That one annoys me LOL It's like, well, duh, I blockquoted a portion of their comment, why does it need a name attached to it? If they return, they'll see it. They manage it now, don't they? Feels kind of like dumbing it down for ppl who can't be arsed to read the whole thread. Lowest common denominator stuff.

      • 4 votes
      #7.3 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:36 PM EST

      You say that, but I've seen countless times where someone has responded to several people in one comment, and someone else says "I never made that argument!"

      So, now, you can have comments that have replies that are targeted towards the people who actually made the comments you're responding to, all in one comment, and it clears up the three comment back-and-forth about who was replying to who. It's good design.

      • 4 votes
      #7.4 - Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:03 PM EST

      ummm, what is gated? I know I am dense at times :)

      Gated means that you need to be a part of that nation to write and seed articles to it, but you can still comment.

      • 2 votes
      #7.5 - Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:07 PM EST

      Thanks

      Word is out & they think they can get away w/ anything b/c they are getting away w/ it. And now you've just confirmed it for them

      I agree with Scar_Tissue

      they openly ralley about this on a seed...I am not trying to start anything, but it is rediculous

      Also , I know you don't want to increase the groups to more than 15, but if you want discussion on the vine, I don't think there should be a limit at all...

      • 4 votes
      #7.6 - Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:28 AM EST

      and someone else says "I never made that argument!"

      They ought to be arsed to read the entire thread if they want to make comments on it, shouldn't they?

      So annoying when someone comes in, immediately scrolls down to the 1st reply spot, & echoes what someone else said 25 posts ago & has already been discussed, then comes back to jeer that he *won* b/c no one could refute it. Just makes them look stupid. Yeah, it ain't all about you, pal, learn to read the discussion 1st.

      they openly ralley about this on a seed...I am not trying to start anything, but it is rediculous

      It is. Just give me a damn hammer, I'll take care of em.

      I used to love my golden hammer. You could boot obnoxious ppl right out of the chat rm.

      Also , I know you don't want to increase the groups to more than 15, but if you want discussion on the vine, I don't think there should be a limit at all...

      Tyler said *not now, maybe later* ^^^

      It's like, what, are they waiting for their inboxes to implode on em when more ppl realize this restriction? Gotta have 100K in complaints & then it's later? Oy.

      • 3 votes
      #7.7 - Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:52 AM EST
      Reply

      Please be aware that there are many types of users... the ones that post, but "go along"... the ones that post aggressively and directly either agreeing or disagreeing with other posters... and a huge faction of people that "graze" and will read both sides of posters appearing to talk past each other, hoping to forward their own opinion. Please do not forget that last group by reducing constructive conflict. I want to be sure we continue to be able to address false political talking points with facts. Nothing feels better than to address one and see that tens or even hundreds have read your points and "liked" them... Thanks Tyler!

      • 3 votes
      Reply#8 - Thu Jan 10, 2013 5:53 PM EST

      Please be aware that there are many types of users... the ones that post, but "go along"... the ones that post aggressively and directly either agreeing or disagreeing with other posters... and a huge faction of people that "graze" and will read both sides of posters appearing to talk past each other, hoping to forward their own opinion.

      Great point. Part of my anxiety is that no matter how much we test it, it's hard to say with certitude that this is going to be the massive improvement we all want it to be. That said, I think building for grazers is much harder than what we did - build powerful new tools that allow users to Nation-build.

      I want to be sure we continue to be able to address false political talking points with facts.

      New Newsvine is not designed to decrease debate. :)

      • 5 votes
      #8.1 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:47 PM EST

      Maybe it will...decrease some of the blogger seeds that alone would be a huge improvement. :)

      • 3 votes
      #8.2 - Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:09 PM EST

      I don't get why ppl just don't click on the blogger's link to the original source & seed that, rather than seeding the op-ed & making ppl go fish for the background info to have it come together & make sense. Not too long ago I saw someone sighing that the source material was buried 3 links deep b/c the blogger linked to another blogger as their source!

      If I see something interesting on a rag tabloid or a blog, I'll go look for it elsewhere to verify it, then seed it from a more reputable joint. There shouldn't be layers of opinion b4 you get to the actual news item, jeez....I mean, aren't you seeding it to get other ppl's opinions on it anyway?

      • 5 votes
      #8.3 - Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:07 PM EST
      Reply

      It just has to not be hateful and destructive.

      ...we need to stop treating Newsvine as one community of 40 million people and start creating thousands of communities of much fewer people.

      It was clear to me shortly after I began participating in the beta program that "thousands of communities" is where you wanted to go... and I'm guessing that at least part of your intention for taking that direction is to discourage deliberately "hateful and destructive" behavior.

      The Vine has been a very good experience for me... I too have "learned as much from discussions as from articles." Actually, probably more from discussion... and it is the discussions with people who do not agree with me that are typically the most informative and rewarding.

      So... On one hand I think... Smaller more intimate communities might inspire more respectful and civil dialog. On the other hand, my observation of group behavior tells me that many of the smaller intimate respectful civil communities will be little more than a collection of like minded people getting together to scratch each others backs. That... would be pretty boring!!!

      • Do I want to soak in a tub of vitriolic hate mongering???
        HARDLY!!!
      • Am I looking for praise from other like minded people???
        No. Few of us can honestly say we aren't hoping for a bit of praise from time to time, but insincere praise is much worse than honest condemnation as far as I am concerned.

      One of the things I sought on the Vine is broad visibility, not necessarily agreement, just visibility. These smaller communities will necessarily provide somewhat less visibility. In this new version of the Vine, I hope to discover less vitriol, more sincerity, and enough visibility to reignite the passion I once had for this place. In any event, I what to thank all the Newsvine staff (past and present), and the many Viners, friend and foe alike, with whom I have engaged. I have gotten smarter here! It's been very rewarding! Here's hoping for many more rewarding years to come!!!

      • 9 votes
      Reply#9 - Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:50 PM EST

      So... On one hand I think... Smaller more intimate communities might inspire more respectful and civil dialog. On the other hand, my observation of group behavior tells me that many of the smaller intimate respectful civil communities will be little more than a collection of like minded people getting together to scratch each others backs. That... would be pretty boring!!!

      I anticipate some cliques. Personally, I won't be reading those.

      I'm positive there will be more Nations that attempt to bring people together around the founding principles of disagreement, not agreement.

      Great comment, MalamuteMan.

      • 4 votes
      #9.1 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:49 PM EST
      Reply

      :

      • 2 votes
      Reply#10 - Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:12 PM EST

      Being one of your older Viners, change can be difficult. :) However, I love Newsvine and love all my friends here so I know that I will learn all the ins and outs eventually. Anytime that I have had a problem and sent a "help request", I always got immediate help. So, I support the changes and trust you Tyler and Sally.

      However, I'm really confused about the AdSense and I got denied.... so I'm waiting for more instructions so that I am not permanently denied. :( I know it will all work out eventually. Growing pains. :)

      • 6 votes
      Reply#11 - Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:05 PM EST

      However, I'm really confused about the AdSense and I got denied.... so I'm waiting for more instructions so that I am not permanently denied. :( I know it will all work out eventually. Growing pains. :)

      Yes. And yes. And yes. Although this article has done WAAAAAAY more to sell the 'new product' than any and every thing that I have read before. That's saying something. I have my bags packed. Now I don't know what the hell to do.

      Damn it. :)

      • 4 votes
      #11.1 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 1:13 AM EST

      (((((Mrs D!)))))

      Where ya been?

      I have my bags packed.

      Um, there's a rule, neenie. I'm in chg here. No one on my FL can leave b4 I do :P

      • 6 votes
      #11.2 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:47 AM EST

      (((((ST♥)))))) I have been really busy lately with the holidays and expect to get more active soon. I have missed "seeing" you young lady and hope you are doing well. :P

      • 6 votes
      #11.3 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:41 AM EST

      Yeah, me, too. I haven't written a thing in mos, except *article-length comments* as someone called one particularly long-winded one last wk LOL It was actually longer than the article!

      I'm getting perturbed w/ this NV trend lately where ppl think a cpl sentences or paragraphs (that haven't been spell checked, even!) constitutes an article. Even Newser has longer articles, & they condense for the short attn span rdrs. This whole Twitter/FB/texting thing is ruining the art of composition. Sigh. Dslsca should hold a class ;-)

      I think I might live (I'm putting off going to the dentist b/c, well, no one likes them). Hope y'all are doing well, too :-D

      • 6 votes
      #11.4 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:48 PM EST
      Reply

      Rah. Rah. Sis. Boom. Bah. Go. Sucky. Nations. Concept.

      If I wanted a fiefdom, I'd go somewhere & make one.

      In fact, I'd make SIXTEEN of em! Or TWENTY!

      I see your 15 & raise you the certainty that your inbox is going to implode w/ shrieking. Probably only 5% of users actually even realize this is coming.

      Now, is there any *real* news to report? B/c this is just cheerleading, sorry.

      Like, who's in chg around here now that Mike D has left the bldg? Is it Sally? Does she get to boss Tyler around? Can we see the pix of such? :P

      PS> I really loathe all the xtra clicking in this new blog format, & it makes my hard drive hum louder just like FB does. Y'all have got too much tech crap running in the background & too many graphix w/ all the avatars.

      • 8 votes
      Reply#12 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:53 AM EST

      Oh god! Is this going to drag my already slow dial-up response time further down? As it is now I can plant a garden between page changes.

      • 7 votes
      #12.1 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:43 AM EST

      If you're using dial-up in 2013, and expecting ANY website in 2013 to conform to your expectations of speed, I'm afraid you're doomed to to disappointment. No website should ever cater to someone who is using a deprecated technology. You may as well be using a monochrome monitor and complaining about content rendering as it's just as apt a complaint.

      • 2 votes
      #12.2 - Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:49 AM EST

      Unfortunately, the rural areas are still using squirrel power until we can get the next update. I can't even get DSL or "high speed." Satellite is available but the cost is prohibitive. If the satellite TV could also provide internet for a reasonable cost, I might catch up to civilization. As it is I get 44kbps. Poor me.

      • 7 votes
      #12.3 - Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:13 AM EST

      Brian, I do not expect NV or any other site to wait for me. It was an expression of frustration. All of my sites except G-Mail are taking longer and longer to load. There are/were several dial-up users here. We may not be able to move up with NNV until our areas get the updates in technology. So far, in my area, the federal money for access has gone to satellite which is cost prohibitive. I can have satellite TV or internet but not both. TV is killing my budget as it is. Because of the mountainous area I had to move to satellite TV. Something about analog broadcast is curved and digital is straight. My problem, not NV's.

      • 5 votes
      #12.4 - Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:47 AM EST

      I feel your pain, Miss Mule. We can't get cable where we live, and even satellite won't work because of all the trees....we have no direct lines of sight anywhere.

      And I can't afford it anyway, I'm only home for a few hours a day, and I'm not going to waste money or time on television...we manage to get broadcast TV, unless it's raining...and that's good enough for me, I read most of the time anyway.

      • 1 vote
      #12.5 - Fri Feb 1, 2013 5:11 PM EST
      Reply

      I wonder if Tyler can tell me why is the WORST SIT-COM IN ALL OF RECORDED HISTORY -FRIENDS- having all these re-runs.

      That Sit-Com has NOTHING that can so ALLOW IT to be so Titled!!! For those Folk who may 'Sense' a certain Feeling of Decline in America, perhaps you could also try & watch a relatively New Sit-Com called -'In The Middle", which seems to explain the 'Progeny' of the 'Friends' cast.

      If one feels that it's the 'Result' of this 'Mind-set', (as so often demonstrated by 'Rachael Green & Friends,) that gave certain people on Wall street (a few years ago,) the 'Gung-Ho' gusto to have Engineered ALL THOSE COUNTERFEIT FINANCIAL INSTRUMENTS, which they Peddled all around the World, (and from which the World has not yet recovered) with absolute 'IMPUNITY'.

      For those who may have wondered Why & Whom at the time of the 'Real-Estate' meltdown, I submit those 2 Sit-Coms as evidence. I wonder what Tyler thinks of my submission???

      • 2 votes
      Reply#13 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:49 AM EST

      I am looking forward to having everything that has been planned in working order, and then hopefully we will have more intelligent, more interesting conversations; I cannot promise anything better on my part, but will try.

      • 5 votes
      Reply#14 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:14 PM EST

      I know we are limited to 15 nations, but do the nations themselves have any limits as to the number of members? Just curious.

      • 6 votes
      Reply#15 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:34 PM EST

      Now that would be the straw for me. Don't like this spittin' camel anyway. If they limit the number of members in a Nation I will be out of here. I will have been socially engineered into the boonies by TPTB (and I don't mean Tyler and Sally) in order to do away with everything old to include old members.

      My entire future depends on whether Newsvine will remain one place where one article can get to the entire community with one click of the mouse. If it turns out that the Beta was Genesis to the Gods of Social Engineering so they can take their Heaven and toss in right into Hell.

      Comcast, GE, you are playing with people. It is no longer dollars you are trying to leverage. Are you up to the task? Are you our new Gods? Blasphemy!

      • 8 votes
      #15.1 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 7:54 PM EST

      If they limit the number of members in a Nation I will be out of here.

      I think it's of some concern, because limiting the number of members would be like forming cliques, not "communities".

      • 5 votes
      #15.2 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:45 PM EST

      If they limit the number of members in a Nation I will be out of here.

      So, someone asked a question -- and we have absolutely no reason to believe that there's a limit on how many people can join a given nation (I see no such limit in any of my nations) -- and you're putting your foot down and threatening to leave based on a potential answer?

      Here's some more reasons people might want to leave, based on some random concerns I just thought up:

      1. Is Newsvine going to impose a time limit on how long we can stay logged-in per session?
      2. Am I going to be forced to change my screen name?
      3. Will other people be able to log in as me?

      There's nothing wrong with asking questions but making declarations about what you're going to do (but probably won't actually do anyway) based on a not-there-yet answer seems incredibly silly. I don't have kids, but I bet if I did, it's the sort of thing they'd do.

      • 5 votes
      #15.3 - Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:54 AM EST

      Brian, I wasn't going to say anything about you coming down so harshly on SW Missouri Mule but then you got my dander up by taking me on personally for making a statement in "my" comment about where I would go if Newsvine limited the number of members in a group. First of all, there are probably millions of Americans that still use dial up. Of the hi-speeds available only a few are capable of supporting what you call a modern computer. Streaming video is a dream of IT, not a reality, unless you consider the broken, scratchy, intermittent skypes on our TV channels as streaming. Are you going to be the leader of the new information upperclass? If so maybe you can inform us on how Grandma can get hi-speed with a total income of $600/month. Maybe you can use your IT skills to make sure all info on the Internet is available to all the millions of computers and devices of any age.

      As to where I go if and when Newsvine goes to Hell. I won't be going with them. You may and probably will.

      • 11 votes
      #15.4 - Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:59 AM EST

      First of all, there are probably millions of Americans that still use dial up.

      I don't doubt that. There are also still millions of americans using monitors that render at 1024x768 or who are using 5 versions old installs of Internet Explorer. There's a reason that websites and designers intentionally do not cater to those people.

      For context, here's a chart showing the numbers.

      The reason broadband adoption continues to go up is because web developers and hardware developers are building toward the trend, which in turn drives the trend, and brings down the cost in broadband, which opens it up to more people and rural areas as it's implemented more and more. None of that happens if companies (such as Newsvine) continue to build down to deprecating technologies. At some point, when less than 3% (which I believe is where dial-up is now sitting) of your user-base are facing a limitation, you have to seriously weigh whether your ideas are more important than their limitations. Usually, they are.

      As to where I go if and when Newsvine goes to Hell. I won't be going with them. You may and probably will.

      I have no doubt that if and when Newsvine goes to hell, you'll be here pointing it out, just as you have been ever since groups were the first sign that they were going to hell. It's your thing. But, that doesn't change my opinion that it's a huge waste of energy to make threats about what you'll do based on something that may not (probably won't) ever happen, before you have any inkling about whether it will, because the random question hasn't actually been answered.

      • 4 votes
      #15.5 - Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:15 AM EST
      Reply

      scar tissue

      thank you for voicing my opinion out loud and LOUDLY. Which nation will I join or which Nation will take me? Or snicki or Cobalt or Belle? Will there be Nation entrance exams?

      People in general detest change....................

      Anyone else notice how many ppl voted ST up ALL day?

      Just saying...............

      • 8 votes
      Reply#16 - Fri Jan 11, 2013 8:40 PM EST

      Anyone else notice how many ppl voted ST up ALL day?

      I was on a rollllllllllllllllll :P

      Just saying...............

      Are you just saying I should be in chg of NV? See if you can negotiate me a good salary package, & I'll definitely consider it ;-) I gotta be able to work in my jammies, tho.

      • 7 votes
      #16.1 - Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:56 PM EST
      Reply

      And it's the weekend, so how can I avoid the opportunity to miss appealing to Tyler to revisit my previous "banning" and "re-enable-ment" and have yet to see a single article, comment (5700) or seed restored, after six weeks.

      And my comments and feedback is still broken...................since 11/07/2012. Coincidence?

      Just saying, patience...............

      • 5 votes
      Reply#17 - Sat Jan 12, 2013 12:50 AM EST

      Well, Billy, you can always go to Tyler's column & use *contact author* to remind him the restoration job hasn't been completed. It could've gotten lost in the shuffle over the holidays.

      • 5 votes
      #17.1 - Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:55 PM EST

      Four times? Five just seems a bit histrionic, don't you agree?

      • 3 votes
      #17.2 - Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:27 AM EST

      Four times? Five just seems a bit histrionic, don't you agree?

      Not if you're not being hysterical about it. That's like, maybe once a wk since *the incident*? Methinks you're being too patient. A whole mo is a long time to go w/o a functional column.

      Try contacting Lance? He's the tech guy whose dept would be in chg of retrieving your stuff, anyway.

      • 2 votes
      #17.3 - Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:16 PM EST
      Reply

      Gotta say I look forward to the NNV, and despite any contention that "no one is happy about" the limit, I gotta say that I (provisionally) am. However of course I also know that if it - or any number of other things - don't work out, they no doubt can be changed. And frankly (no offense, Sally or Tyler) but presently the moderation is almost worse than no moderation at all, because it's too hit and miss and therefore pretty much de facto unfair. I realize there are a zillion reasons for this. Still, it'll be nice when that's less of a problem (and by design, too!). So, yep, can't wait. Bring it on.

      • 3 votes
      Reply#18 - Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:54 PM EST

      Great, Chasing, just think if the World could just get rid of about 3.5 billion people our problems would be cut in half. Sorry, but I don't see segmenting and pigeonholing as progress or expansion or growth. Maybe, just maybe, the NNV is a giant step toward prevening overpopulation.

      • 5 votes
      #18.1 - Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:02 PM EST

      Wow, that was some, erm, analogy, there... Not even sure where to begin. But here, I'll try:

      As it is, there are dozens of article types, and, frankly, seeder types, that I avoid like the plague, because the conversation always results in a meltdown, bad moderation, or both. With NNV I can discuss all of these topics - and feel OK posting them, too. And I look forward to that freedom.

      I hang out in a lot of different coffee shops. They each serve their purpose. I wouldn't want them all merged into one big caffeinated mess, though. Maybe the NNV won't be up your alley. Maybe it won't be up mine. But I'm certainly willing to give it the benefit of the doubt - especially as I'm not exactly enamored of the NV of today, and miss (somewhat - it was clearly imperfect, too) the NV of yesterday.

      Frankly most of the whom I consider the best Viners are long gone. Clearly the status quo doesn't work for everyone. It never does though, does it? So it goes.

      • 3 votes
      #18.2 - Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:10 PM EST

      Chasing, didn't mean to be so abrasive but "the old" Newsvine was a news site first, community second. Communities can be gated, segregated, anything they want. News should be widely and evenly distributed. The community made Newsvine so I guess those who want community first have good cause. We never have done much good at delivering the news from the membership up. We have just followed the offerings of MSM.

      • 5 votes
      #18.3 - Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:02 PM EST

      The news still will be, though - NNV doesn't change that, really - but the discussion arena will alter, sure. Now, I grant that it is entirely possible that people will segregate, but I think the limit on Nation membership will help alleviate that, and also I think that there are plenty who will start and/or take part in "kitchen sink/anything goes" Nations. I don't think everyone should have to be in such a Nation, though, and frankly if they don't want to be there then forcing them will either do more harm than good, or drive them from the site entirely. Honestly I think it's as likely that a few huge mega-Nations will develop and the rest will wind up about as used as Groups are, now. Of course I don't know. I'm interested in finding out, though. Certainly my hopes might be misplaced, I don't deny it. I came here from another site and it didn't change with the times, so it died. Whether or not the NNV will save NV or kill it, I guess we'll find out soon enough?

      • 6 votes
      #18.4 - Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:16 PM EST

      Gotta say I look forward to the NNV, and despite any contention that "no one is happy about" the limit

      Unfortunately, anyone who "is" happy about the limit is derided as being a cheerleader. I'd say there are a few types of people in this situation:

      1. Those that are incredibly unhappy. A small number of people.
      2. Those that are looking forward to the changes. A small number of people.
      3. Virtually everyone else.

      Unfortunately, it seems as though #1 has been making a concerted effort to poison the well for #3. As with all changes to all websites, there will be a loud and vocal outcry by those who don't like change (almost no matter what it is) and then that will die down in a month or so and everyone else will get back to the business of (hopefully) producing compelling content.

      • 3 votes
      #18.5 - Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:59 AM EST
      Reply

      To help realize this goal, we're creating an entirely new construct on Newsvine that we call "Newsvine Nations". From now on, all of your activity on Newsvine, whether it be writing articles, seeding links, or participating in discussion threads will be done within the scope of what Nations you are a part of. In other words, the concept of a global discussion thread where everyone on Newsvine can talk past each other is being de-emphasized. When you discuss things on the site, you will now be discussing them with a much more familiar set of community members: the community members who choose to be in the same Nations you choose to be in.

      Speaking of "nations", I'd like to see a geographic nation identifier on every viner's home page that is publicly viewable to to the literal level of real life nations such as the USA, Canada, Spain, etc. I think this is needed in some cases due to events happening in one country being commented on by people in another country as if they are there and are living in it when in fact they are not.

      No need to get down to states, cities, or zip codes. Just countries or nations if you will so we can properly see where that person is physically located on Earth.

      The viner themselves could choose which nation...and if it's obvious that they are NOT there it would then be reportable to newsvine for investigation IF they were trolling and felt safe as they were not inside the USA. Etc.

      I would also like to see some kind of "troll" identifier choice in the reportable violations choices so that inflammatory posters can more rapidly be ID'd and dealt with so the vine becomes a less extreme place to exist in. If even there was a personal level "troll exclusion" for individual viners to totally block another viner from seeing anything from them AT ALL this would help with the cyberstalking and harassment a lot. This would just a stronger form of ignore and as it would NOT be publicly viewable it would constitute no possible libel regarding other viners at all.

      Food for thought.

      • 2 votes
      Reply#19 - Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:23 PM EST

      I think this is needed in some cases due to events happening in one country being commented on by people in another country as if they are there and are living in it when in fact they are not.

      I don't understand why that would be a problem.

      That would mean if a news item was seeded about, say, happenings in Egypt or Australia, no Americans could offer their opinions on it. We can't say just b/c someone's *not an American* it precludes them from commenting upon American news items.

      I mean, 90% of Canadians live within 100 mi of the US border. You think they should be restricted to just Canadian news items? Or that those of us who live on the Canadian border shouldn't comment on Canadian items? There are no physical white lines painted where one country leaves off & another begins.

      The viner themselves could choose which nation...and if it's obvious that they are NOT there it would then be reportable to newsvine for investigation IF they were trolling and felt safe as they were not inside the USA. Etc

      Just b/c someone is *in* a certain geographical area doesn't mean they're *from* there in his mobile society, nor does it mean they have no knowledge of world affairs & are not *qualified* to comment upon them. We're not asking for citizenship papers, advanced degrees, passport records of international travel or living to *establish ID*.

      What if you're an American living in England, but you put in your home state instead? That's not a *reportable offense* or a *troll*. That person chose to say where they were *from* rather than what country they're *in*, same as if a Brit living in the US chose to put in Birmingham, England instead of Alabama.

      What do you mean by *felt safe*? Felt safe to do what?

      This would just a stronger form of ignore and as it would NOT be publicly viewable it would constitute no possible libel regarding other viners at all.

      Sure it would. The ignored person would either whinge about it or make nasty remarks about the person who did that to them, just as they do now.

      • 4 votes
      #19.1 - Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:18 PM EST

      No need to get down to states, cities, or zip codes. Just countries or nations if you will so we can properly see where that person is physically located on Earth.

      A good argument is a good argument and a bad argument is a bad argument. What does it matter where someone lives? If someone reveals their own ignorance through their arguments that's your opportunity to provide a better counter-argument.

      • 2 votes
      #19.2 - Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:59 AM EST

      My troll-stalker showed his country of origin out of the US. I suspect he was routing through that country, not originating there.

      • 3 votes
      #19.3 - Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:53 AM EST

      Your troll-stalkers problem was that he/she was a liar. Liars will find a way to lie.

      • 1 vote
      #19.4 - Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:05 PM EST
      Reply

      I see your above points. I maintain that some basic origin country information would be useful.

      I did not intend to indicate that "walls" be put up electronically, just that some origin ID be seen so if someone is writing a post as if they "were there" and there is a place in Europe and the poster is in Canada that will be plain to see by other posters as being a "not there opinion" and thus taken in the correct context. As the viner themselves would choose their own country, if they are deceptive, those from that country would soon realize them as being deceptive and things would take their natural course in time.

      Lot's of people outside the USA seem to have strong opinions about Civil Rights INSIDE the USA and - frankly - I just don't give those that don't live inside the USA the same weight as those that are non-citizens living outside the USA. Doesn't mean they can't have important things to say, but as they are NOT living here, they are not subject to the consequences of their own proposed ways of US living here.

        Reply#20 - Tue Jan 15, 2013 2:39 PM EST

        As the viner themselves would choose their own country, if they are deceptive, those from that country would soon realize them as being deceptive and things would take their natural course in time.

        This is a very good thing.

        Lot's of people outside the USA seem to have strong opinions about Civil Rights INSIDE the USA and - frankly - I just don't give those that don't live inside the USA the same weight as those that are non-citizens living outside the USA. Doesn't mean they can't have important things to say, but as they are NOT living here, they are not subject to the consequences of their own proposed ways of US living here.

        This issue has always been a bone of contention with me, and I'm quite pleased to see it addressed. If I know where a member is actually living, it also gives me an opportunity to ask them questions about their country. I can't see how learning about the culture of another country could ever be a bad thing.

        • 2 votes
        #20.1 - Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:20 PM EST

        Hello Shrew!

        I'm glad you understood what I was getting at and I too think it needs to be addressed. As we cannot recognize "speech mannerisms", body language, etc, to get a clue where the other person might be "from", as least a self-chosen country ID would make it so I might understand WHY someone else from somewhere else might feel the way they do, while at the same time not give it the kind of weight that I might give someone "local" who actually has to live with the consequences of what's being offered as "solutions", etc.

        There is nothing wrong with having a sense of national identity, family, or group. And for those that don't want to do it a choice of something like "I'd rather not say" would cover that too.

        I'm willing to live within what I myself propose. When I'm posting about what is happening in other parts of the world it doesn't bother me if someone comes back with an "here's what it really like here" to fill in exact details that no one but a local could possibly know. That's how we ALL get the bigger picture by taking "looks" from both inside and outside of the situations we discuss as sharing them.

        • 1 vote
        #20.2 - Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:53 PM EST

        It's a "bone of contention" with me as well. It's one thing to stir it up with a provocative article about current innuendos and contentious issues in our nation, but quite another to put down 'this group or that group' when they don't live here to know the reality of it.

        Often, it appears their beliefs are a result of their credulity in reading biased comments from others that aren't even remotely the truth about living in the US. The negative US image they go on to foster does more harm than good.

        • 2 votes
        #20.3 - Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:43 PM EST

        Hello CL!

        Again I agree.

        Opinions are what this site is about, but it's only fair that some sort of geographical ID is available.

        Even inside the USA, people living inside big cities have very different lives that those living in the country, and there's just no way anyone that hasn't even seen "the other side" can possibly see how what might be of interest to them might do real harm to others if a "one size fits all" thing isn't kept at bay.

        That's one reason we have State's in the old USA system, was to allow for some differentiation on how things were done according to local needs and/or customs.

        This also allows for viners to possibly realize both sides can be "right" even when different things are being done in two places.

        • 1 vote
        #20.4 - Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:09 PM EST

        If we keep an open mind to our own position as well as theirs, it might not be such a contentious bone. Everything isn't city/rural, Dem/Rep, male/female, black/white. If we listen to the opinions of those outside of our own zone, we might learn something, even something about ourselves. I learn more from debate than from meeting with my like-minded groups. I learn more when I have to defend my position than when I simply present it. Keep an open mind.

        • 5 votes
        #20.5 - Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:48 PM EST

        I doubt anyone is saying world exposure isn't enjoyed. Opinions by all are always appreciated by me and others. Culture, Art, Photography and many World events that we we find interesting in other countries are presented much differently (and more credibly) from someone that lives in that foreign country.

        My point was promoting 'stirring up trouble' (as opposed to good debate with facts regarding our nation from other than MSM sources) in our Nation by someone that doesn't live here and isn't going to have to suffer any consequences from their negative articles, as well as might only have the 'facts' from a news report. I like RC's idea that we should know if we are talking to a US resident, opposed to someone that lives in say, Iran or China, that is *trashing* one of our organzations, politicians or government policy. They have a right to their opinion like anyone else, but we should know if they are someone we might not want to give much credence, simply because they don't live here. I voice opinions on Iran and China... and it makes sense to me that they should know that I don't live there and am not being unpatriotic, as that might change the attitude we have towards each other and could help our exchange... and maybe not.

        • 3 votes
        #20.6 - Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:38 PM EST

        So because a person doesn't live in your neighborhood, their opinion or observation has little weight? We can't learn from outside our own closed group?

        by someone that doesn't live here and isn't going to have to suffer any consequences from their negative articles

        It's an article, not a military attack! Stay off their articles or say your piece and go on to another article you find more to your liking. The more attention you give them, the more populated their articles become. You aren't going to change their behavior nor that of foreign news sources.

        Ever hear of "propaganda?" That's what comes out of China and Iran and Cuba and many other countries including the US. Yes, I said including the US. That is what you are fighting with. We have it great here but we aren't the best in every way compared to all other countries. We have many flaws as evidenced in our government. Try to look from the outside in, like a therapist. Rejoice in what we do right. Accept what we do wrong. Think about how we might do better. And if you can't take world politics, try cooking or pets or gardening or poetry...

        • 5 votes
        #20.7 - Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:28 AM EST

        You're missing my point. The "weight" of an opinion is equal; but attacking groups within another country to which one is not a part of and has no bearing, is antithetical. It makes absolutely no sense for me to *attack* with 'righteous indignation' any of the Muslim sects in Afghanistan, or Saudi Arabia, or Egypt, or Libya, nor even defend the Christian Copts to which I more closely identify. ..Simply because I am not, nor ever have been part of their world in a modern context. Sooooooo ...It makes no sense for someone living in another country to stir up trouble for us bashing 'our' groups and organizations, and government, spreading lies about something they are not a part of, and don't have to suffer the consequences of any trouble they might start. I feel the same way about anyone living here, bashing Israelis' or Muslims' government, policies, cultural orgs., etc. that don't have current experience in living with them in their countries. ..'Discussing' others' way of life from first-hand experience (which is good) is not the same thing as ridicule and attempting to undermine the solidarity of another nation.

        • 1 vote
        #20.8 - Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:51 PM EST

        CL1, I really think you are making too much of this. As I said, the more attention you give to an article (or poster) the more attention it will gather from others. Let them verbally attack whatever group in or out of the country, say your piece if you have to, and move on. Why are you arguing with someone who either is paid to spread propaganda or is just full of hate? Do you think you will make a difference in his life? Do you think your words will save the reputation of a particular group or country?

        I get what you are trying to do. Really I do. I did it for a while defending certain groups in and out of the US. I found it better to work with organizations and with trying to change laws. Look what is happening with Gay rights for instance. That is happening through protests for positive action, calling on lawmakers to make changes. I can type all day going back and forth with a Gay-basher but to what end? I would rather type a few emails to my Congress or make a sign and stand on the sidewalk.

        So let some idiot "attempt to undermine the solidarity of another nation" with his little article or seed or comment. Let him scream until his voice gives out. Don't give him credence. Don't make him feel as if his opinion is important. Put his verbal propaganda pamphlet in your mental shredder. Then put him on ignore.

        • 5 votes
        #20.9 - Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:25 PM EST

        SW, I'm not saying "shut him up" (although there are certainly times I would like to because I believe they do more harm than good - because there are those here that 'will' believe his words), so much, as I'm agreeing with RC -- give us knowledge in what country they are from.. that will possibly give us insight to both 'cause' and motivation for the vitriol and degradation.

        • 4 votes
        #20.10 - Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:58 PM EST

        ????? Please tell me where I suggest to "shut him up?" Knowing what country a person is from tells you nothing, certainly not his physical location. My dear, you are so naive.

        • 4 votes
        #20.11 - Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:37 PM EST

        :)..We 'all' are naive in certain areas, imo. Depending on the topic and person's comments, physical location can speak volumes.

        • 2 votes
        #20.12 - Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:36 PM EST

        I think Reality Check just wants to slap up, say, a 2nd Amendment seed, & if he doesn't like an opinion offered, he wants to be able to look at the user profile & say *You're from Canada/England/Scotland/Australia/Wales/New Zealand/Ireland/wherever, so you don't know jack about it b/c you're not an American, just STFU & go away*.

        That's just dismissing an opinion b/c you don't like it & you want to use the source as an excuse to say so.

        Yet I've seen that some ppl here have discovered via seeds the British papers (signing up w/ their NV usernames), & they go over there & tell them to STFU b/c they're not Americans on an article about the US in a British paper! O the irony. Guess what? They don't want you there, either, they tell you so, but y'all keep going back....so what makes you think a non-American would heed American whinging when the opposite doesn't hold true?

        *You're not an American, you can't talk about [unfurls list & rattles off topics]!*

        How quaintly xenophobic.

        • 4 votes
        #20.13 - Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:45 AM EST

        Other countries have similar laws or maybe better. It's always good to get other viewpoints. Closing yourselves off to the world is like trying to heal your own illness.

          #20.14 - Sat Feb 2, 2013 11:25 AM EST
          Reply

          It's not necessarily safe to share such data, and such data is not necessarily true or relevant; I could appear to be logged in from pretty much anywhere, if I chose. And if I'm in Korea, what does it matter? I'm still a Texan. I've lived and worked a ton of places.

          Really its neither here nor there; I sincerely doubt NV will ever go for it.

          • 4 votes
          Reply#21 - Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:52 PM EST

          Chasing, It is too bad that many of the participants here on what is left of the Vine, have never realized that it is best to actually listen and attempt to understand the words of others. It is too easy to dismiss their thoughts and opinions by saying, "well it does not matter because they are actually are not from here and don't understand our problems". Many times that person actually sees the real root cause of the problem that you can not because you are standing on that root and won't move your foot so you could see it....

          • 9 votes
          #21.1 - Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:02 PM EST

          I personally like seeing other ppl's opinions on US affairs, whether complimentary or not. They're not emotionally involved in the issue, so they can offer valuable feedback & POVs y'all never thought of b4.

          • 3 votes
          #21.2 - Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:51 AM EST

          I personally like seeing other ppl's opinions on US affairs, whether complimentary or not.

          I do, too. Sometimes a different perspective can be interesting, if not eye-opening.

          • 1 vote
          #21.3 - Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:39 PM EST

          I enjoy reading opinions from other nations, too.

          What I don't like is anyone spreading lies about the 'effects' of different cultures, government policies or Faiths on the lives of the residents when they don't live there to know if it is true or not.

          • 3 votes
          #21.4 - Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:26 PM EST

          CL1, One does not need to look for people from other countries to find those that spread lies to support their version of events... As time goes on, here on NV, it only seems to have gotten worse.... Too bad that there is actually here on the Vine (where we are now in the infamous Pig Trough) many new members that seem to delight in actually creating a hostile environment....

          • 5 votes
          #21.5 - Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:41 PM EST

          Hi crazy.. (said in a good way, of course:)

          Oh, I agree. They are all around... just trying to stir it up. Some stirring is good; best to use a spoon. It's when they get out the electric mixer, that we really get shook up.

          • 4 votes
          #21.6 - Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:40 AM EST

          What I don't like is anyone spreading lies about the 'effects'

          The new vine should do nothing other than foster lies because of the closed community approach to any rebuttals. I believe that was the entire purpose of the new design. Silence those rocking the boat, so the lies go unimpeded, and unchallenged.

          • 4 votes
          #21.7 - Tue Feb 5, 2013 4:26 PM EST

          I'm not interested in the content of this article. I just want to be introduced to Mike's husky fella. And his dog too.

            #21.8 - Sat Mar 9, 2013 5:26 AM EST
            Reply

            I am a bit late and slow. Let's say I have a "political" story on Cong. X and a gated Nation has a similar story. I want to seed my, period. I don't want to crash the gated community. What is the solution?

            • 1 vote
            Reply#22 - Fri Jan 25, 2013 9:27 PM EST

            Same as now, I'd guess. Duplicate seed, no go. Only Sally said ^^^ there's no clipping in NNV, so you can't snag it for your grp's pg. You can, however, discuss it w/ your peeps, only outside of the grp on a different tab. I think.

            Tyler best get working on that primer so we know WTH we're doing.

            • 2 votes
            #22.1 - Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:53 AM EST

            scar tissue, Hmmm, windows 13 will probably be released before we get that primer! Before a primer can be written, they must first have a program to teach you to use...... They are still in the midst of the great Betta (sic) flop, and the silence about their progress is deafening..... As for myself, it is of no great importance, I will not be going forward into the final release, the very concept of segregated nations and a Pig trough hold no interest for me... Have we not seen enough of the last part of that concept here on the classic version of the Pig trough over the last several months?

            Darn, where are my manners? I failed to say good morning.... Sorry....

            • 2 votes
            #22.2 - Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:36 AM EST
            Reply

            Ok , I changed my mind...I really like the new beta :)

            • 1 vote
            Reply#23 - Wed Feb 6, 2013 7:56 PM EST

            Well? Details, details!!! What changed your mind?

              #23.1 - Wed Feb 6, 2013 8:34 PM EST
              Reply

              Tyler dear, You are now 26 years old. My husband and I have academic credentials of-the-charts- and HE is still working around-the-clock for the Defense Department. He is Yale Phi Beta, and he is, today, 81 years old.

              We, as seniors, just entertained, THIS MONTH, AT OUR HOME, OVERNIGHT.....the biggest opera singer in the world.....the blind (since age 12) tenor, because he was performing here in Fl.......Andre Bocelli.

              Something was Very WRONG when the very people who were the HOSTS/HOSTESSES of THE ANDRE BOCELLI OVERNIGHT .......GOT BANNED...........

              Just wanted you to know. YOU know why.........

              You have to be 26 going on 90.............from experience.

                Reply#24 - Fri Mar 8, 2013 9:22 PM EST

                PS. Please listen....please.....

                If you ever, ever start to say to yourself:"THis isn't NORMAL....I can do BETTER than this..."

                Listen to your inner voice. And MOST of all........google:

                "The Glorious Gift of Rejection" - by the Living Legend of this country.

                Love and good luck always. You CAN do it!!

                (A hint of what the living legend said to me: "You're stuck in the mud."

                Amen to all.

                  #24.1 - Fri Mar 8, 2013 9:36 PM EST
                  Reply

                  Before I go to bed....OBVIOUSLY......when someone/a couple can SUCCESSFULLY ENTERTAIN/HOST THE

                  one-and-only BLIND ANDRE BOCELLI at THEIR HOME....OVERNIGHT........

                  It is about Newsvine.......NOT the people posting,. SOMETHING HAS GONE HAYWIRE........

                  (Show this to your bosses; they will 'get it' - if you don't at 26)

                    Reply#25 - Fri Mar 8, 2013 9:51 PM EST
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