Am I missing something here?

Being a self-identified progressive, I embrace change but I do have a couple of questions.

What prompted these drastic changes?

I have been monitoring comments about the upcoming change and overwhelmingly people don't care for it.

Reminds me of the old adage, why fix something which isn't broken?

First, these changes make it almost impossible for me to earn my fifty cents a month, since the Google/Adsense debacle.

Second, many, many, of us are members of private chat rooms which the supposed new & improved NV decided to make public, leaving us NO option other than to take our business elsewhere.

Third, who determined the 15 "nation" number? Again, there are thousands of NV members who are now forced to pick and chose.

Fourth - It has been asked repeatedly what impact changes this new format will have on First Read and NBC threads, only to be ignored.

Fifth - If Newsvine is so concerned about glitches and such, why are you implementing this during a weekday and not a weekend?

Sixth - Has anyone done solid research on the number of members who have already bailed? Or was that the strategy all along? Funny, I haven't seen anything with these improvements which will cut down on the number of re-regs.

I will close by saying I have met and made some of the most wonderful friends here - it's been a hell of a ride!

We don't need Newsvine, they NEED us!

Feisty, I have always enjoyed your "first up" responses. Thank you.

Well said Feisty. Thanks

I would like Sally or Tyler to respond to the legitimate points that Feisty makes.

What happens posting comments to First Read? Ahhh, there you are Tyler.

Less than thousands, but yes - we recognize that will be quite inconveniencing. So they won't have to choose right away.

Probably less than thousands, but of those, because they are in many groups, probably means that they are the heaviest users of the system. That means that while the numerical figures are low, the impact is high, high enough to the point where many of the high profile users will quite possibly choose to not be a part of the new vine.

Earlier the better. There's also only 7 of us and we wanted a date that would offer peak support.

Implement on a sunday, support on monday.

Been involved in too many deployments to see that doing this midweek is a bad idea.

Yeah... Membership is at an all-time high. Retention is strong, too.

Well I know of a few long time, high profile users that have pretty openly stated that they more than likely won't be a part of the new vine. They won't necessarily be removing their accounts, but just won't be a part of it. This is where the 'numbers' don't really tell the whole story.

A lot of ideas about how to improve discussion on the web, mostly

Sorry Tyler, from everything I have seen so far from long time members, that is a pipe dream? Where did these ideas come from?

Did any of the long time contributors contact Newsvine asking for these changes?

Nope. No private discussions will be made public.

What you fail to mention is, any previous private chats will not be made public, unless they are deleted. Going forward is a whole different ball game. Did it ever occur to any of you, that we APPRECIATED the privacy?

The purpose of eliminating them is what, exactly?

we recognize that will be quite inconveniencing

So who's decision was it to do it? Does making it happen "not right away" make it any better? Kinda like the old saying "the doctor will see you soon".

None yet. Hopefully soon. First Read, in particular, would benefit a lot from this new version.

Thank goodness! I have over 200 friends who are L O N G time First Read contributors long before anyone heard of Newsvine.

There's also only 7 of us and we wanted a date that would offer peak support.

And, your back up plan is ???? If things don't go as expected? Then what?

Yeah... Membership is at an all-time high. Retention is strong, too

Can we get some source for that claim? Everything I have read says quite the contrary.

I noticed you totally ignored my question on re-regger's... I'll take that as a "we aren't going to do a thing"

Look... I'm not trying to be argumentative here, all I want to know is who thought it was a good idea to mess with success?

I also think long time loyal members deserve some real answers...

Cause, I don't know about anyone else, but I ain't picking up what ya'll are laying down...

What I have been hearing about the new site is the limitations. I just got used to the old site sort of but a lot of the features I like aren't going to be on the new site. I consider that a dumbing down and a handicap.

The other thing is the nations Idea, that sounds like a way to divide people even more. I feel it isn't what I am looking for in a site. I will more than likely go on another search to find a site that don't have these nation divisions and limitations.

I am going to give it a shot but I will still feel limited or penned in knowing anything I write isn't going worldwide like the old version. Thats why I'm not going to post any articles yet. Each nation is going to be controlled by a very few I learned. Sounds like the same problems the old vine has that I have been reading about is only going to be multiplied.

Well thats what I gleaned from those who have been using the new vine. I don't understand why you don't leave the old vine intact so people will have a choice in the matter or a vote would have been nice too.

Tyler

Why start the site on a thursday why not start the 11th on a Monday or are you and Sally working the weekend?

Tyler,

I am one of the administrators for a public group and we would like to delete that group when the change happens next week.

There is no “Warning” message for administrators so what do I need to do to delete this group?

Since it is possible to self-delete a group in Beta, could you wait until the 7th and delete it over there?

Tyler your future is in used car sales. (Click the comment. Can't see it as a link) new, improved? snort!

Seriously?

Alrighty then, 'splain this email I got yesterday:

You now have a
special token applied to your account which lets you toggle between "Newsvine
Classic" (the current site) and "Newsvine Beta" (the current published version
of the new site). Look for the toggle link in the footer of the site:

There was a screenshot crop there to show me where to look.

Yeah, it ain't there. So much for efficiency.

These, however, are the parts that slay me:

You are currently in 18 Nations.

No, I ain't. They're GROUPS. (Nations. Pffft.) It's not Doomsday yet.

We have preselected 3 Nations for you to leave, but you may modify that list

Are you kidding me? *Preselected*? Nice of you to permit me to modify that. Good grief.

Especially considering I have been reduced to clipping to my own grp despite numerous bug reports b/c my own grp has dropped off the *publish to* list & there's supposed to be no more clipping. Y'all need to FIX THAT.

Again, you don’t have to cut down to 15
Nations in order to use the new site; we’ll let you know in advance when we
institute the limit. Just click "Do this later" to close that screen and
continue using the site. You’ll see the screen regularly until you leave enough
Nations to get under 15.

Nag, nag, nag.

You can keep your *special token*. Well, actually, you are, b/c it's not there LOL

Dare I hope this will be an ongoing trend?

Whoever picked Thurs wasn't thinking, BTW. Good luck cleaning up the mess in the vacant halls on Mon. Ain't no one going to wait for y'all to get back to us some time in Mar.

Third, who determined the 15 "nation" number? Again, there are thousands of NV members who are now forced to pick and chose.

If this will help anyone, here is my opinion. The only part of the Beta system I have been using from the time I started monitoring it are the 15 Nation groups I chose. I have stuck to those 15 rigidly since last year, ditching the tons of others I had, just to get a feel of of how they would work. I have only noticed two negative aspects about them so far:

1. If people are forced to choose only 15, they are likely to choose the most populated - and predictable topic - groups which gradually kills the other creative and diverse ones.

2. It needs about 20, rather than 15. That number is far too low and inflexible to cope with new invitations etc.

Otherwise, I haven't seen any adverse effects using so few groups.

1. If people are forced to choose only 15, they are likely to choose the most populated - and predictable topic - groups which gradually kills the other creative and diverse ones.

I think the trick is finding a balance: not so few that people say 'screw it' and ditch the more eclectic ones, and not so many that there's little point in using the smaller ones because hardly anyone (excepting for a relatively tiny amount of groups) uses them. I don't fault NV for trying to find a sweet spot, and I imagine that they'll adjust the number up or down if they need to, but I guess they've gotta start somewhere.

I think I will wait until after the launch before giving my verdict. It will be easy for me to compare because I have all my stats for what's been happening on my column since I've been on Newsvine. If anything dramatically changes either way, I'll know soon enough. But I do like the new front page, and even though it is not as easy to navigate as the current Classic version, it is certainly attractive to the eye.

Tyler

I am a long time contributor to First Read. Newsvine not so
much. Why do you ask? Because quite frankly I find Newsvine and it’s Officials
just about as disingenuous as you have been here in answering questions from
most contributors to First Read.

I was one of the first posters that had a contribution
deleted after Newsvine took over moderation of First Read. Didn’t break any
rules just didn’t fit with your understanding of how First Read was supposed to
work. As I tried to follow your rules and ask for explanation as to how this
happened all I got for my efforts was “crickets”

I am the member of a group that is the only one to my
knowledge was deliberately hacked and what we thought were private
conversations were posted and misconstrued on First Read in an effort to embarrass
and “shame” our members. It still occasionally shows up in an effort to stop
debate. Newsvine response: Well you’ll didn’t strictly follow our rules for
making your Group Private. So sorry but it is a “glitch” in our system. Since
then “crickets”

Then we went through the “collapsed by the community” phase.
Folks figured out real quick how to game the system and stifle debate by
organizing and collapsing comments that they didn’t like for one reason or
another. The only fix you’ll had for that was to essentially make the feature
inoperative on First Read. So now we have to put up with comments that should legitimately
be moderated out. Most of the time when you’ll were questioned about why a Legitimate
post was “collapsed by the community” and to restore it the answer was “crickets”

Then we went through the “deleted” stage. Organized groups
soon discovered how to click advertising and thus delete a post. Newvines
response; another “glitch” in your system and basically disable the feature.
After that “crickets”.

I could go on and on with problems that Newsvine Moderation
(or lack thereof) apparently has no answer for but this is already getting to
long.

So now you’ll say you going to change things. And it’s all
going to be “peaches and cream” Sorry but I don’t agree with you. It looks like
just another attempt by Newsvine to gloss over a multitude of problems that
they either can’t or won’t address.

I was involved in building the First Read Community long
before there was a Tyler and Newsvine. My contributions to that effort (no
matter how small they are judged by others) is a source of some pride with me
and many others. My contributions to First Read will be more limited after your
conversion if they don’t disappear entirely.

Like my Ace Fiesty put it I ain’t buying what you’ll are putting
down and that is a stone cold shame.

Good luck going forward

Ms Cyprah: Since you are one of my favorite folks who seed on Newsvine, maybe you could help me understand this: If there are only going to be 15 Nations, then why are we told that all groups will become Nations?

Can we get rid of a group that we don't want to turn into a Nation? Thanks

If there are only going to be 15 Nations, then why are we told that all groups will become Nations?

Because all groups will now be entitled Nations. They are just changing their names, that's all. But YOU have to choose which groups you wish to belong to. It could be the ones you are in already, but they will be restricted to 15 only. You have to ditch some of them to get down to that number.

Can we get rid of a group that we don't want to turn into a Nation? Thanks

It will STILL be a Nation. You just don't choose it.

Think of it is this way: Pretend you are just joining Newsvine on February 7th. On that day, you would only be allowed 15 groups/Nations from every group you see. Except that if you do have a problem limiting your groups, you will get a little more time after the 7th to whittle them down.

Thanks for the compliment. Very nice of you to say, newdayDawning. Hope you find this of value. :o)

Thank you Ms. Cyprah. I think I get it now.

Can we delete a group that we don't wish to keep. There is an old group that has 3 members that we would like to delete.

Tyler and Sally

I have a suggestion ,

How about we have our 15 active groups but we can have space to put 5 in inactive , we could deactivate on and reactivate another and go back and forth... so we have a total of 20 grooups but only up to 15 can be active at one timePlease?????

That's a good idea, MJL, and gives room to breathe.

By the way, thanks for your invite. Very kind of you, but as I am on a full 15 groups just now, I cannot act upon it yet.

Can we delete a group that we don't wish to keep. There is an old group that has 3 members that we would like to delete.

Oh, yes, I should think so. Nothing has really changed in that respect except the number of groups we are allowed. However, I'm sure someone will put you right if I'm wrong.:o)

Thank you, Ms Cyprah. Want to say again how much pleasure I have had from your seeds and the discussions. Breath of fresh air.

By the way, thanks for your invite. Very kind of you, but as I am on a full 15 groups just now, I cannot act upon it yet.

That's ok I understand...it will remain open :)

Then we went through the “deleted” stage.

Nah Floyd!

The gang of collapse cowards are still roving - my comment #1 was deleted only yesterday;

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/31/16794835-biden-new-gun-controls-likely-wont-end-shootings

There was NOTHING in that comment that even came close to a COH violation!

Now you sit back and wait to see how many hours it will take if they decide to restore it...

Is anyone else having major problems with their conversation tracker? Mine has been wonky all week...

Most definitely Fiesty with a lot of repeats and a page this size takes forever to display, not d/L, but build and display with all the 3rd parties involved now.

I'm going to go have breakfast waiting for this comment to post :o)

My question is this:

I am the owner of several groups. When I click through the Redline Banner the only group it appears I am allowed to delete is the one I don't WANT to delete.

How can I toggle and delete one of the other groups?

I am going into beta and looking at it more closely but it is hard to track new comments

My tracker said two new comments by Northern girl and dr Know, but it didn't go to their comments

Okay???? so how do I track new comments...

also when I look at my tracker , and scroll down to view it evrything runs together in a mumbo jumbo mess

What browser are you using? That happened to me yesterday for awhile. It usually sorts out in a few.

Tyler, I am the owner and I booted Dennis this morning, thinking that was the problem!

Now I think it's because the one I am trying to punt is technically a 'public' group - although we've closed the drapes and no one can peek in.

At any rate, how do you screen cap? you mean private email?

I can't seem to post to you because the 'Category' field is locked on 'Select Category' and there are no categories in the list to select from.

I have the screen shot in a word doc for you; but I just double checked all settings again and there simply isn't a check box to remove this group. Given the trouble with the report a bug issue,...I'm not terribly surprised.

Tyler,

I clicked on your “here” link but it would not allow me to select a “category”. All it said was “Choose” with no drop down options.

Is that another bug with the new SW?

Thanks Clara, that is what I was about to tell Tyler.

I had Tyler's email from a couple of years ago and sent him the message that way. Thanks, Dennis!

Tyler Timeline questions aside you can point to one of you'lls many problems on this thread. Why in the world was Fiesty's question of you "collapsed by the community" You got a moderation problem and you haven't been able to solve it and don't show no signs of solving it. Maybe you don't know how to solve it but until you do solve it alls your doing is moving the deck chairs on the Titanic so's you have something to do until that Sucker sinks.

I never thought I'd ever agree with a liberal, much less fiesty red-head, but I have to say this -

The fact that membership is at an all time high says a lot about something being right and is in it's self a reason not to change. Having not seen the new product I'll hold final judgement, however, I'm less than thrilled and edging into disappointment. I hope the final product remains user friendly without becoming somehow more divisive, as it sounds like it may become.

Sally,

Thanks … It still did not drop down selections … sorry

Tyler. This is before the gold necklace generation. So much excitement here

Whats Tesla? heh heh.

It's been great having a place to talk, air differences, meet new people and view different perspectives. It will be a shame when it goes away, either through wholsale changes or disinterest caused by the changes.

Losing members is progress? Seriously Tyler/Sally? Let me point out that as members lose interest and quit showing up - the most likely senerio is that they won't be back. This is acceptible? Preferable?

Yeah... Membership is at an all-time high. Retention is strong, too

Can we get some source for that claim? Everything I have read says quite the contrary.

.

Visitors by Country for Newsvine.com

Country

Percent of Visitors

India

70.0%

United States

9.0%

Pakistan

5.1%

China

2.0%

Bangladesh

1.9%

Philippines

1.8%

Thailand

1.0%

Indonesia

0.9%

United Kingdom

0.8%

Canada

0.6%

http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/newsvine.com#" href="http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/newsvine.com"> http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/newsvine.com#

70% of the traffic here on Newsvine is from India???

...and according to statsaholic traffic is way down (by2/3rds) since last year, down to under a half million unique visitors. http://www.statsaholic.com/newsvine.com

Use of the Newsvine widget is virtually non existent. http://w3techs.com/technologies/details/so-newsvinewidgets/all/all

Not sure where Tyler gets his info from, I couldn't get the link he posted to show anything but they want you to get an account to see anything. Maybe if you pay for the stats they tell you what you want to hear???
The vine will be dead within a week of it making any drastic change! It's dropping like a rock here in the states! If you listen real hard, that wooshing sound you hear is all the users going to other sites! There are just too many other sites out there just like newsvine or better, most all of them are faster and less intrusive too.

A cocktail party with five close friends is a great time. A luncheon with 100 acquaintances is a great time. Even an event with 500 colleagues can be a great time. But an event with 50,000 or more people is no longer a social gathering at all. It's just a big glob of people talking past each other.

For this reason, we've come to the realization that for Newsvine to continue growing but at the same time regain the intimacy it was once lauded for, we need to stop treating Newsvine as one community of 40 million people and start creating thousands of communities of much fewer people.

To help realize this goal, we're creating an entirely new construct on Newsvine that we call "Newsvine Nations". From now on, all of your activity on Newsvine, whether it be writing articles, seeding links, or participating in discussion threads will be done within the scope of what Nations you are a part of. In other words, the concept of a global discussion thread where everyone on Newsvine can talk past each other is being de-emphasized. When you discuss things on the site, you will now be discussing them with a much more familiar set of community members: the community members who choose to be in the same Nations you choose to be in.

This is flawed thinking! I am here BECAUSE of the 40 million or more people! If I want an intimate conversation I will use a chat room! It is the huge numbers of people that bring in the varied opinions and discussion points. That's what made NV so good. Take that away and we got nothing.

Tyler claims that membership is up and retention is good, but that doesn't seem to hold true for those of us that are here watching what is going on. Retention is good because they ban people, but leave up the content they had. re-regs are probably counted as new users.

Actual users posting articles appears to be down and AP and NBC seem to now be the biggest contributors to the vine.

Divide and conquer!? Pick your nation and go to war with the other nations?

...No thanks, I'd rather have a discussion with the people in the world on the internet, not one nation.

I'll more than likely be at http://www.cerebralrising.net/ after the vine changes. It's an up and coming site that has some great people there. As more people find out about it, it will grow fast! The best part is that there are NO ADS running on the pages! No tracking cookies! Newsvine sets both the facebook and the adchoice cookies and both are tracking your every move, even after you leave Newsvine and even if you do not have a facebook account! That info they collect from tracking you is then sold to others and NBC/newsvine is making money from running those ads and cookies. Your information is compiled and used to target advertising and many other things!

I'll hate to see the vine go, but they feel they have to change the site, so we can't do much about it! They asked for our opinions and most are in favor of NOT changing the site, so that proves how much weight the opinions of the users are. Only thing we can do is move on.

I question what that 70% from india is from, because quite honestly, I don't see much in the way of indian posters. Could that be on the NBCNews side?

Sammy,

Thank you for taking the time to research those stats! Wish I could vote your comment up 100 x's!

This whole nation thing has a very cliquey feel about it, starting with having to pick and chose & it spirals down from there...

Whatever... good luck to them, they're gonna need it!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexa_Internet#Accuracy_of_ranking_by_the_Alexa_Toolbar

There is some controversy over how representative Alexa's user base is of typical Internet behavior,^[18] especially for less trafficked sites.^[16] In 2007, Michael Arrington provided a few examples of relative Alexa ranking known to contradict data from comScore, including ranking YouTube ahead of Google.^[19]

and:

Numerous antivirus companies have assessed Alexa's toolbar. Symantec classifies the toolbar as "trackware",^[25] while McAfee classifies it as adware, a "Potentially Unwanted Program."^[26]McAfee Site Advisor rates the Alexa site as "green", finding "no significant problems" but warning of a "small fraction of downloads ... that some people consider adware or other potentially unwanted programs."^[27]Windows Defender has classified the toolbar as malware, considering it a trojan.

Yup, exactly who I want to go to for reliable information.

Thank you, sammy sezso! Lots of good info. I knew about the tracking and their host's benefits, which I learned after realizing that if I set my privacy setting too high, then the sites won't let me in. Same with Google and gmail, and other accounts (merchants). It seems NV is hoping that 'new blood' will have a different view. Maybe some will. Thanks for the site info, too.

Sammy

Thanks

Yup, exactly who I want to go to for reliable information.

I do.

Thank you, spiffie. Alexa is not a reliable source. India is where my stalker-troll was routing through. He did not actually live there.

I have thought he was still here using a different moniker, SW. ..Similar 'voice'. Have you thought so ? I also have a couple names in mind, but after the 7th I won't be able to keep tracking them.

sw,

if they are routing through a proxy, then there is not going to be a way to get real stats. I can see that as part of why india is so high, but 70% though.

Based on the comments that I see, I would almost throw that particular stat right out.

Although a decline of readership would show up though. You just couldn't say where that decline is from.

Also, user retention is high isn't a good indicator, because accounts don't expire. So someone who doesn't delete their account is 'retained' even if they never log in.

Einsteinian Insanity

I question what that 70% from india is from, because quite honestly, I don't see much in the way of indian posters. Could that be on the NBCNews side?

Here are the unique users stats for the United States. http://siteanalytics.compete.com/newsvine.com/

These aren't much better, http://www.semrush.com/info/newsvine.com

The traffic from India may be coming from newsvine widgets running on websites there???

Whatever... good luck to them, they're gonna need it!

I agree

"They use force, to make you do, what the deciders, have decided you must do."-Eldridge Cleaver

As far as the accuracy of Alexa goes, They address that in their about section. The toolbar IS considered malware because it reports back to Alexa,(duh) the toolbars are used voluntarily by millions of users and Alexa also gathers additional information from additional sources other than their toolbars. Their stats, like any others, can be argued as being not perfectly accurate, but they do give a general idea of where the site is as far as site ranking, traffic and popularity.

I welcome someone to present some stats that show how great Newsvine is doing since NBC took over!

What happens if we don't want to join any nation or group on the new vine?

CL1, I'm sure he's still here torturing others. I haven't been very active so I haven't run across any trolls except the foul user name.

That's good, SW.

My guess is that's him. I don't see him pestering anyone; just 'sounds' like him, commenting around.

Sammy,

Well I took a hiatus for a few months, and I can say this, the traffic has dropped considerably since I came back, so the numbers seem to make sense.

What I see right now is not very many people are posting articles, a lot of people have left, and a lot of what is being posted is just trolling crap. I would think that the semrush site might be a bit more accurate, only because it shows the spike just around the election. The other site might be averaged out taking out the peaks and valleys though.

The drop though isn't just surprising, its shocking, and it certainly does indicate that there needs to be a change at the vine, but is that change the new vine?

As for NBC, the graphs indicate that the problem started before NBC took over ownership, but to be honest with you, I think the priority for the vine and NBC is on the nbc side of things, the news site, not newsvine itself. The NBC side creates the justification for newsvine to exist.

not sure what else to say

I'll just say I remember Propeller. They thought they had to change and did .

It turned out bad for them and we who were on that site. They promised the same things and are now history.

numbers are at an all time high?

oh I am sorry....not many people have been more active than I over the last 3 years..and I can tell you from what I can see participation is by far down over the last 4 months.

This place is like a graveyard now with comments compared to a couple years ago.

sorry, just dont see it tyler.

and the differences in appearance to me is like the difference between windows 7 and 8 and I am struggling with that right now.

sammy

the majority of traffic is from india because that is where all the spammers are from. My website gets most its traffic from there too...and I delete tons of accounts that are nothing but crap .....from india.

oh also my tech support is based in India......could be they have some connections there as well.

I think the India traffic are the people making the spam and adverts.

Clearly, most users don't want the wholesale changes, yet NV/Tyler/Sally have an agenda. What the majority of users want is not part of that agenda. So sad, so frustrating.

oh I am sorry....not many people have been more active than I over the last 3 years..and I can tell you from what I can see participation is by far down over the last 4 months.

Is this an argument for or against new newsvine?

Brian,

Even just a couple of months ago, traffic was up, today, I have seen at most 10 new comments whereas a few months ago, I would get several hundred in my tracker.

Now I don't have thousands of friends, but most of my friends are frequent users,

What is even more troubling is that the biggest drop seems to have happened right after this announcement was made, and I don't just mean big, I mean it has DROPPED OFF A CLIFF. I don't even really see much on the front page.

I've been on all day and it seems as busy as usual. I haven't gotten to some of the articles I want to read due to responding to comments.

I'm wondering if the amount of posting done on this thread is an indication of the current level of interest.....

it could be my tracker, it could be that I only have about a page of friends, but it also could be that most of my page of friends have decided to just drop off the system. I know that a few have decided to leave, most of them have been beta testers.

What is even more troubling is that the biggest drop seems to have happened right after this announcement was made, and I don't just mean big, I mean it has DROPPED OFF A CLIFF. I don't even really see much on the front page.

I, for one, think a good old fashioned culling is just what Newsvine needs. I think it's gotten away from its core premise and that these changes are more in line with newsvine from years 1-3 than 4 till now. With that said, I don't really buy into the theories (based mostly on bad tracking and observational evidence rather than real numbers) that traffic is down.

Usage from a core group, maybe, but again: I can only hope that's the case. I'm really looking forward to seeing how 1) a new group of core users or 2) those who stick around who embrace challenge and change live up to the Newsvine motto.

I really, really miss the pioneering spirit that used to exist here.

The friends I've heard from don't seem nearly as "geeked" as Tyler, in fact they seem to be leaning toward leaving NV. Time will tell - but from what I see of the new platform it doesn't interest me nearly as much as the current format. There seem to be lots of "nations", but if there is a tendency to develop cliques doesn't that remove- or at least impede - the open debate we have here?

We'll see how it plays out.

I cannot support the notion that 'traffic is down'. With the transition in progress, it is probably not as clear cut as it could be, so difficult to read accurately. But speaking from personal experience alone, my traffic has been increasing consistently, and in some cases dramatically. Yes, I know I'm also a regular poster, but if there is less traffic, per se, then I should also be seeing the effects of that, not the comments and figures going up!

Chuck,

In going through comments from Staff and long-time users, it appears to me that the 'focus' is on new members joining the site that will accept the new program. They want discussion groups that will function as a group of members following group standards set by the group admins, and seem to be less interested in 'who' they actually are. This is a function that works on other sites, why they seem confident in making the change, most likely.

We're spinning our wheels pulling for us long-time users; we don't matter in their big scheme of things.
Either we stay and try it with their new members, or we leave. Not that I'm happy with that reality - but a reality it is. :) FR sent, if you agree.

I may be middle-aged but I still have a lot to learn. I plan to continue to "get smarter here". If that means learning a new way then I'll learn.

I know they are hoping it will all work out the same, but in observing other sites with this concept, it is not the same as 'old Newsvine.' This new concept has 'different' objectives; that's fine, and it does work in seeking those objectives.

It's slightly similar to the difference between public and private school (based on my own experiences). They both have their own incentives and rewards. It just depends on what the student is wanting to gain.

Just what are those objectives? I don't want to be part of any secret plot. The only objective I saw on classic was to provide users a place to read, write, and discuss news and other subjects while sharing profits from advertising. Is that changing?

No, I didn't mean to imply a secret plot. I was just pointing out the difference between a discussion-based forum, opposed to one such as old Newsvine that was based on information pieces without discussion, the News as info only, 'topics' for display - in other words, more free-form.

This place is like a graveyard now with comments compared to a couple years ago.

Marshall, I am not sure which place you are talking about, because it is certainly not the Newsvine I know and participate in. I might not like everything about the transition, but one could never call it a 'graveyard'! I guess we all see what we wish to see to justify our beliefs and anxieties? Or is it that your little patch is the graveyard while all the ativity is going on around you?

I may be middle-aged but I still have a lot to learn. I plan to continue to "get smarter here". If that means learning a new way then I'll learn.

Great attitude, SW Missouri Mule. We don't learn from fear and forebodings, but from the willingness to experiment and see what's possible. As my hero, Dr Martin Luther King Jr, once said:

"Faith is taking the first step, even when you don't see the whole staircase."

Indeed.

Tyler sez:

It'd be nice to retain every non-spammer, Chuck in Olathe. But it's not realistic; people leave.

It looks like we're not just talking about a couple of old-timers, it looks like a significant number.

If veterans like it, great.

The obvious, though not stated second part of that comment is "Too bad if they don't." Tyler - nobody asked me or any of my Friends that have contacted me what we wanted, what we liked about the old format, or if we wanted change. Perhaps this is why a lot of the older members are saying they feel left out - and that they don't matter.

It is no wonder that you were chosen as an Ambassador for the London Games, MsC♥, of the brilliant smile! You are a natural wonder all by yourself!

You are a natural wonder all by yourself!

Wow! That's a first even for me!!! Thanks for the amazing compliment!

FIN, you really know how to make a gal's head bigger! Hope your Sunday is going very well. :o)

CL1 sez:

Chuck,

..it appears to me that the 'focus' is on new members joining the site that will accept the new program. ...... and seem to be less interested in 'who' they actually are. This is a function that works on other sites, why they seem confident in making the change.....

Agreed, I believe you are correct. However, if that is the format for other sites then what will set NV apart from the pack? They had a one of a kind product and they're dumping that to become a duplication? What an interesting concept.

We're spinning our wheels pulling for us long-time users; we don't matter in their big scheme of things.
Either we stay and try it with their new members, or we leave. Not that I'm happy with that reality - but a reality it is.

Again, agreed. It is what it is. My ranting won't change anything, but I've gained a few new friends in the bargain. Thank you for the invitation.

tyler -- #1.77 - Sat Feb 2, 2013 11:29 PM PST

But it's not realistic; people leave.

Correct. It's called "churn". As long as the number of new people coming in exceeds the number of people leaving (positive churn), there's not a problem. But there is a problem. You're just not seeing it.

Newsvine-the-website and the Newsvine-comment-engine are two separate entities.

Any time someone wants to comment on the MSNBC/NBCNews, articles they have to use the Newsvine-comment-engine. That inflates the numbers of users using the comment engine, and gives it a positive churn rate. After the MSNBC/NBCNews split, use of the comment engine skyrocketed. But most of those people don't migrate over to Newsvine-the-website, and we are losing "Viners" faster than they are being replaced (negative churn). I don't think you see that, though, because you only look at the total number of page views, and not what is generating those page views.

I sent you a link to an article I wrote, The FireFox Users group Massacre, that's a pretty good demonstration of Newsvine-the-website's negative churn rate. Pretty much the same thing happened when I purged the WTF? group. If everyone purged their groups and Friends lists of inactive members, I think they would be shocked to find out there's really not all that many people here. How many of those 588 users on your friends list are still here, Tyler? I know that save the cheerleader hasn't been seen since 5/24/2010.

Something that, though I understand the reason for it, is still kind of comical: you and Sally restore collapsed comments for "clarity". I hate to have to tell you this, but clarity hasn't been seen on Newsvine since 7/21/2007... ;)

The thing that keeps Newsvine-the-website's page views artificially inflated is the spammers. If you look at the Leaderboard's seeders for a week (you have to wait for it to calculate), any user on that board that has a popularity rank of 50000 is most probably a spammer. The situation is even worse on the Leaderboard's authors for a week page. The spammers get in the Greenhouse, and they don't care if they get any votes or comments. All they want to do is run macros and link-farm for page views. If you go to Newsvine.com Site Info, click "Traffic Rank" and then expand the "Where Visitors Go on Newsvine.com" box, you'll see that the majority of users listed there are spammers. If you got rid of the spammers, Newsvine would probably disappear out of the site rankings. Scary thought.

Ms CYPRAH -- #1.78 - Sun Feb 3, 2013 6:19 AM PST

This place is like a graveyard now with comments compared to a couple years ago.

Marshall, I am not sure which place you are talking about, because it is certainly not the Newsvine I know and participate in. I might not like everything about the transition, but one could never call it a 'graveyard'! I guess we all see what we wish to see to justify our beliefs and anxieties? Or is it that your little patch is the graveyard while all the ativity is going on around you?

You're getting more and more page views, votes, and comments, because you're having to share them with fewer and fewer publishers. For the things I'm interested in, the "sidewalks get rolled up" earlier and earlier.

Maybe I missed it somewhere but the transition from groups to Nations is very distressing to me. I stopped doing Beta because it forced me to pare to 15 groups to continue and that comes to fewer than 3 per year for the time I've been here! That seems like a way to restrict involvement but not improve it.

Now I'm curious if my groups will arbitrarily be erased in transition and what options if any are available to those of us who think 15 is nothing more than a way to jam us into a cloud computing profit model, rather than support the community that built this place. Apologies if that was addressed somewhere already, but its my main worry and haven't seen an answer that doesn't seem like a more nicely worded assurance, lump it you'll like it and feel like a finger other than a thumbs up. Here's hoping there's a happy answer, thanks! :~)

Well, Sir Richard, thanks for that observation, but I guess we'll all see what the true picture is like after the transition.

MS CYPRAH - The problem for all of us is - for a moment assuming that the long-time users here are correct - is that when the "true picture" comes into focus it will be much to late......

Sally - kindly asking - if the group of seven really cared what the old timers wanted why weren't we asked?

How do I get every Newsvine page to look like this one. The others are an abomination and designed for 12 year olds with ipads.

Well, actually, their lower limit is 13 -- their "target" audience.. (j/k!)

Althought i dislike the new look of Newsvine im getting used to it a tiny bit still miss the old look though

but why on a Thursday to start the new look its kinda an odd day to begin it

The Vine would be even better if I could save and post on my page the Comments and Feedback section. It wont work. Why dont you all fix whats BROKEN first, then implement sweet change?

>Why wont anyone who represents The Vine help Thee Ox? Why?
I'm a nice guy who loves his Mother and Puppies. WHY??!!

LoL... I thought our page stays the same over in Beta... meaning we won't lose anything, yes?

Unfortunately for Thee Ox? Thee hardly doubts it, Tyler.

Don't matter to me if it stays or goes.

Thanks to Lance, I was able to visit the beta side of Newsvine.

Over the years, when discussing the future of beta and Newsvine, it was said that we would be able to enhance our column page, our home page, so-to-speak. I have now discovered that Newsvine Beta is not offering that feature. So, my question is:

Why were the Beta testers able to enhance their column with different colors and different fonts? For a very long period, members were told they too would have this feature once the switch took place, and it is this very feature I looked forward to using. It was to be a way to distinguish ourselves from others and most importantly, it was to be a way for us to exhibit ourselves with flair and style.

I don't consider changing an avatar or a one-line-bio as enhancements for my column page.

This saddens me greatly.

it was said that we would be able to enhance our column page, our home page, so-to-speak.

That's a good point. Our columns on the new site are even less customizable than they are now. It's actually worse. Much worse. And such a god awful waste of screen space.

I wanted purple :(

I wanted Brian Ford to help me design my page, because my CSS program was too difficult for me to figure out (I have Beta 2. format), but he doesn't like me (:) so I gave up.

Can we format it? I don't think so....

I wanted purple :(

One eyed, one armed purple people eater ...

you betcha, wink, wink :?

I love Purple...:)

Tyler
You and Sally are on a lot of friends lists...are you accepting invite to groups or not?
I sent you both one, so please let me know :)

MJL-3

I love Purple...:)

I love purple too, and I know my question as well as my longing is of little consequence at this point, but truly, I was looking forward to making my column my own. We are all so different and it's human nature to want to display those difference in some fashion of art or expression.

I also believe that how we express ourselves visually, also helps how we express ourselves in conversation. With the feeling of confinement, and knowing we won't all be as open to the public as we hoped, it would have been nice.

Brian Ford mentioned the "pioneering spirit" of what was once Newsvine, and I agree with him completely. I only wish that spirit included self-expression in addition to the use of words.

Tyler, please explain what exactly you mean when you say, "Unfortunately comments and feedback aren't making the shift." Is it simply the items on the author page or thread comments affected?

Tyler, please explain what exactly you mean when you say, "Unfortunately comments and feedback aren't making the shift." Is it simply the items on the author page or thread comments affected?

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the "Comments & Feedback" section on column pages (since he capitalized them). No one would be able to hold discussions if they couldn't comment on threads.

Yes it seems, but transferring all the old thread content, all of it, is not something that feels good to assume, but confirm. The idea that discussion still occurs wasn't in doubt, thanks!

Sally

I sent out a TON of invites to my Friends Nation but in Beta it doesn't show them all, when we switch will they be lost????? OMG please tell me no....

Also in beta , when you send an invite my email address shows, why can't it be a general nv mail????? I don't want everyone to have my email address ....It doesn't do that in Classic.

The ability to enter an arbitrary name and email address is probably a bad idea. It's too easy to make it look like a message is coming from someone else. One or the other fields needs to be set to reduce the likelihood of shenanigans.

The alternative would be for Newsvine to allow you to register (and verify) multiple email addresses and then select available ones via a dropdown. This seems like an edge case to me, though, in that not many people would have need of such a feature. Were it me making the strike list, I'd put that pretty far down.

rottlady
That is an excellent Idea !!!!!!

I haven't heard one way or t'other, but I'd be surprised if we had to change anything. They have our Google Analytics code; they just have to insert it in their templates wherever convenient.

The ability to enter an arbitrary name and email address is probably a bad idea.

Why? Every email has a Message ID that can be used to track down the source.

That's why they always ask for the full headers when someone has an email complaint.

Because I'm sure Sally and Tyler have better things to do than track down every message ID that comes their way. Part of good systems design is reducing the burden of pointless administrative work.

pointless administrative

Ya know, unless that's your thang....

Oh snap.

crackle, pop...

I seriously doubt Staff is going to ban someone where the only evidence is an email address. They're going to want to make sure that the email even came from Newsvine's servers.

Who said anything about banning? There's cognitive load involved in even being forced to think about potential shenanigans. The smart move is to remove even the potential.

tyler

Wow, you really did, MJL-3! I see at least a few hundred invited on the 'Invited' tab on your Nation's members page in Beta. Is it possible that the Viners you're missing already accepted or rejected invites? You won't lose invites upon launch

I have 408 pending,

95 accepted and

200 more to send out...I just hope it doesn't implode NV 3.0 :)

I ......am......loved :)

Spiffie: Maybe "tracking down every message ID" = job security?

If the roll-out is the catastrophe I predict, they might be glad of some job security.

Not a job I'd want, to be sure.

Sally Or Tyler,

Will you please e-mail me and tell me how to delete my account and have all of my comments, seeds and articles removed from the newsvine.com websites?

Thanks.

sammy

WTH, no....

tell me how to delete my account and have all of my comments, seeds and articles removed from the newsvine.com websites?

https://secure.newsvine.com/_tps/_accounts/global/settings

The Last House item on the left.

The Last House item on the left.

Will that remove the comments too?

Will that remove the comments too?

It says that it does (when it prompts you for your password) but this guy might disagree.

Will that remove the comments too?

It used to, but not any more. Too many deleted comments were causing disruptions in the discussions.

You can request a total deletion via email, but I don't think they'll go for it.